you start from a false premise.
How completely funny. Do you know that the “false premise” you site comes directly from your web link? All that I have bulleted in bold are things from your web link and all the rest are my points against those claims. You are disagreeing with yourself. Pay more attention.
thats just your point of view. i see it differently. hate is very well the oposit of love.
And that is what I pointed out as ignorance. You can say that is my view point, but more to the point, it is my experience. If in your life you have not loved and hated at the same time, it does not mean that both emotions can not coexist in your heart toward one person. I understand that you have no frame of reference for this, that is exactly what ignorance is: lack of knowledge. You can not tell me something that I have witnessed or experienced is not true, just as I can not tell you that the little voice in your head is not god. It can be god for you, if you’d like. I sincerely have no problem with you believing in a god. But the idea that you planned to come on to this website to “spread the good word of the Lord” is arrogant and naive. We’ve lived in your neighborhoods and our doorsteps have been darkened by the hooves of those wishing to convert. It is the same whether you admit it or not. Spreading the word is adding to your cult. I’m not buying, sorry, you got the wrong sucker. I’ve seen this dance and I’m not impressed by the song. You came here as if sent on assignment by your church to convert heathens. It is lame, and by the way, there are members of your faith which would serve this cause better than you. Sorry, but your lost in translation evidence gathering from the web is not impressive.
You are making a analogy between a kid, and Adam and Eve. But Adam and Eve where fully acountable for theis disobeyance . They were not innocent kids. They had full capability to make their choices. They had direct community with God, before the fall, and so had no reason to doubt about God’s sincerity. But what was Gods intention with humanity ? God did not intend for us to be living in this amoral, fallen world. God intended for us to abide by His commandments, and if we chose to live in His will, we would not be afflicted with evil. The Adam and Eve story demonstrates the type of world we would have lived in if we did not choose sin.
Mankind’s reaction to temptation has been revealed to us in the Adam and Eve story. Adam and Eve failed to obey God. We lie, do take things that aren’t ours, do hate, and do commit various other sins. Sadly, we fall to temptation and give in to these sinful urges just as Adam and Eve disobeyed God. You, i , we are all not better than Adam and Eve were. We have no excuse whatsoever.
God warned of the judgment He would cast onto Adam and Eve if they disobeyed Him; similarly He warns us of the judgment He will cast onto us. We willingly choose to invoke His wrath by our decision to disobey Him.
Very forgiving god you got there. Adam and Eve did one thing wrong, and they are damned, as is everybody (until Jesus) including the animals. No, you are right, that makes sense. The previous statement was sarcasm, in case that was to oblique. Your idea that Adam and Eve were not innocent kids intrigues me. Did god create them with what we ourselves are not born with? Did god give them previous understanding of how consequences work? That isn’t something you are born with. I know when I tell my son the consequences, sometimes he likes to test the boundaries. I think you brush over what is clearly written in your bible. Now it has been awhile since I’ve had a bible to physically reference, but here is the first thing that came up in google (and, Angelo, if you have a preferred web translation I’d be more than happy to debate using that as reference):
And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3 but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” 4 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not die. 5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” 6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate; and she also gave some to her husband, and he ate.
This is from Genesis 3 and it clearly demonstrates that god, not only lied to Adam and Eve, but made them about as capable of handling that situation as any 7 year old being talked to by a snake. It took very little for the snake to get them to disobey god. So, why put the tree in the garden at all? Why tempt them at all? Your last sentence: “We willingly choose to invoke His wrath by our decision to disobey Him,” sounds like what an abused wife would say. Not my kind of all-powerful being.
how do you arrive to this conclusion ? his finding is in accordance with science, isnt ‘it ?
No, Herbert Spencer does not have scientific findings. Here is wikipedia: Herbert Spencer (27 April 1820 – 8 December 1903) was an English philosopher, prominent classical liberal political theorist, and sociological theorist of the Victorian era. He isn’t a scientist, although, he was friends with Darwin. Be careful who you choose to quote in your web scouring attempt to prove yourself right.
Me: we are now aware (thanks to Einstein) that space and time are one.
You: thats new to me…..
Believe it or not, that does not surprise me.
a lot. What would be the alternative ? ” nothing ” would be the origin of all created…. it takes a lot of faith to believe that.
You are very myopic. Christian God or no god. Have you not heard of any other theology? For me, it is more interesting to look at life through the lens of creation well beyond our comprehension. I see people more like a cancer on the body of the earth. Mostly, I like to suppose in the areas left open by the extents of what we can know. There was a very informative documentary regarding viruses and their role in evolution. Fascinating! Life is bigger than god or no god. I don’t see any relevance in holding on to a very old, very distorted idea of a super power forged at a moment of a heightened level of social ignorance.
I don’t know what a Rorschach blob is….
The Rorschach test is a piece of paper with an ink blob on it and usually the paper is folded in order to make a free form design. When people look at the ink blob/blot they see different things based on their emotion and mental perspective.
Question: “Why did Noah curse Ham / Canaan?”
Again, this is from your link so if you don’t like the quote, don’t blame me.
1. It is very possible that Canaan was involved in some way. In verse 22 the text specifically states that Ham was the father of Canaan. It seems to be of some significance that Moses does not specify any of the other sons. It is quite possible that Canaan had the same base disposition as his father. It is even possible that Canaan participate in some way in this shameful episode. Noah also speaks in a loving, kind toward Shem and Japheth for their faithfulness toward him.
The website you refer to claims that Noah’s curse could be seen as prophetic and not against Ham per se, but only Ham’s children. Irregardless, I think it is interesting that this site decides to give Canaan an active role in a bible passage which does not give any such actions to Canaan. Noah’s curse is for all of the descendants to be enslaved, and if the purpose of the bible passage is not to damn descendants for Ham’s actions, which are pretty benign, then why mention the drunken nakedness and Ham at all? It takes many assumptions to try to steer this bible story away from what it simply states. Ham told Shem and Japheth about drunken, naked Noah, and Noah decided to curse all of the Canaanites. Why is Ham the shameful one in this story and not Noah?
We follow Christs mandment to go to all the world, and to tell other people the good news of the gospel, forgiveness of sins, god’s love and offer of eternal life. My focus at a atheist site is to show the comprehensive evindence, that hints to God, through science. What YOU do with the message given, is entirely YOUR business. That means, if you want to react positively to the gospel and my testifying , than YOU must convert from your sins, and your old life, to a new life in Christ. Its not ME to do that for you. That’s why i do not convert anyone, but each one has to convert by its own to Christ, if wish so. What generally is meant , when someone says : ” you try to convert someone ” - than someone wants to FORCE others to its own believe. That’s never my intent.
Maybe you should heed Jesus’ words to his disciples: And if any one will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet as you leave that house or town. That is Matthew 10. WWJD? Jesus would not seek out an atheist forum and rehash what they all know and have found lacking.