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Alternative medicine for childhood cancer ...
Posted: 23 May 2009 06:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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HERE is a similar case, with a conviction. At least that’s some solace.

Wisconsin: Mother Convicted in Sick Child’s Death
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: May 22, 2009

A jury in Wausau found a mother guilty of second-degree reckless homicide for praying while her sick daughter died instead of seeking medical help. ...

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Posted: 23 May 2009 12:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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dougsmith - 23 May 2009 06:14 AM

HERE is a similar case, with a conviction. At least that’s some solace.

Wisconsin: Mother Convicted in Sick Child’s Death
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: May 22, 2009

A jury in Wausau found a mother guilty of second-degree reckless homicide for praying while her sick daughter died instead of seeking medical help. ...

Yes, with a possible sentence of 25 years. Unfortunately the prevailing attitude is to give them probation with the thought that the death of their child is ‘punishment enough’. I’ll bet the same happens here, and nothing will change…... hmmm

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Posted: 23 May 2009 01:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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I think you have to consider the purpose of punishment before you can decide whether the punishment was appropriate. As far as I can see there are basically three reasons to punish someone who has committed a crime.

1) To prevent others from doing the same thing
2) To prevent the criminal from repeating his/her crime
3) To provide any aggrieved parties and society at large with a sense of satisfaction ( call it vengeance if you like), so that they don’t resort to vigilantism.

In the cases we are discussing here a parent has withheld treatment from a child not out of malice, but because, however misguided, they felt it was the best course of action for the child.

Preventing others from doing the same thing may be very difficult. These are religious fanatics and as recent history shows, religious fanatics are capable of going to great extremes in an effort to follow their beliefs.  Publicizing these cases and highlighting a good outcome when traditional medical treatments are provided may change the minds of some of these people but most will remain unmoved.

It seems that if we want to address reason No.2 for invoking punishment the best way to do that is through some sort of re-education of the individual and perhaps some method of preventing further efforts by the criminal to ever again be in charge of a child’s care.

Providing society with a sense of satisfaction to quench their outrage may serve a purpose, but I don’t see this as an issue that will result in riots or violence if the perpetrators aren’t punished severely. As horrible as these events are I think most people have a degree of compassion for the family’s loss.

I think there does need to be jail time for these individuals combined with re-education and monitoring after they are released, but as much as I despise what these parents did, I don’t think long term incarceration ( such as for 1st degree murder) or more severe punishments would serve any purpose.

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Posted: 23 May 2009 02:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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Number 1 is not going to happen, because others who would do the same thing would be convinced that theirs is the one and only church with the one and only god who WOULD answer THEIR prayers, or if the child dies—it is his will….

Number 2 is what I would hope for, because there are families (one in Oregon I believe) where multiple children in the family have died due to this sort of medical neglect. I doubt if they will be able to ‘reeducate’ the families. Freedom of religion is still a right in this country, even if the ‘religion’ is a bizarre one (as I think they all are!). I think what they could use is a good old fashioned ‘deprogramming’ but I don’t think that could be legally done.

No matter what is done,  the irrational beliefs of these people will not change because they cannot see that they ARE irrational…....

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Posted: 24 May 2009 09:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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I tend to think that jail time for fanatics isn’t likely to accomplish anything. It won’t deter others or change the mind of the person convicted. Prohibiting them from having additional children, by sterilization, would make more sense but has it’s own ethincal issues and certainly has no chance of ever being accpeted. Lifelong close scrutiny of their childcare practices and early removal of children not cared for properly might be possible and acceptable, though I am skeptical. Still seems like a no-win situation unless you can truly change the minds of the people through counseling and education, which seems unlikely.

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Posted: 24 May 2009 09:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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mckenzievmd - 24 May 2009 09:32 AM

I tend to think that jail time for fanatics isn’t likely to accomplish anything. It won’t deter others or change the mind of the person convicted. Prohibiting them from having additional children, by sterilization, would make more sense but has it’s own ethincal issues and certainly has no chance of ever being accpeted. Lifelong close scrutiny of their childcare practices and early removal of children not cared for properly might be possible and acceptable, though I am skeptical. Still seems like a no-win situation unless you can truly change the minds of the people through counseling and education, which seems unlikely.

Well, nothing will help the complete fanatics, but I’m willing to bet there are many who are on the fence about these things, and for whom the prospect of jail time might make them decide to go through with medical treatments to which they are otherwise philosophically opposed.

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Posted: 24 May 2009 05:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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dougsmith - 24 May 2009 09:37 AM
mckenzievmd - 24 May 2009 09:32 AM

I tend to think that jail time for fanatics isn’t likely to accomplish anything. It won’t deter others or change the mind of the person convicted. Prohibiting them from having additional children, by sterilization, would make more sense but has it’s own ethincal issues and certainly has no chance of ever being accpeted. Lifelong close scrutiny of their childcare practices and early removal of children not cared for properly might be possible and acceptable, though I am skeptical. Still seems like a no-win situation unless you can truly change the minds of the people through counseling and education, which seems unlikely.

Well, nothing will help the complete fanatics, but I’m willing to bet there are many who are on the fence about these things, and for whom the prospect of jail time might make them decide to go through with medical treatments to which they are otherwise philosophically opposed.

I’m with Mckenzievmd on this one, I have little hope of that happening. I would like to be proved wrong. downer

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Posted: 26 May 2009 04:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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Good news.

Mom prepared to allow son to undergo chemotherapy

“NEW ULM, Minnesota (CNN)—A 13-year-old cancer patient and his mother who last week fled their rural home in Sleepy Eye, Minnesota, rather than undergo chemotherapy returned voluntarily Monday and will accept whatever course of treatment a court may order, their lawyer said.”

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Posted: 26 May 2009 07:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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This is good news.  Now hopefully they will stop fighting the doctors and allow their child to get the medical help he needs.  However, right now, the mother only has custody.  She does not have legal rights, so it’s really all out of her hands and if she doesn’t cooperate, then she won’t have custody either.

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“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 26 May 2009 02:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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I hope she has not badly compromised his chances of surviving the cancer!!

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Posted: 26 May 2009 09:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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I hope not too.  Hopefully he still has a chance to get well.

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“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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