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The murder of Dr. George Tiller
Posted: 13 June 2009 08:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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(Christian) Anti-Abortion Blogger Admits Hoax: Blogger Claiming Pregnancy With Sick Child Caught in Web of Lies by Readers

By RUSSELL GOLDMAN
June 13, 2009
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=7827909&page=1

In painstaking detail and heartbreaking prose, a young single mother shared with the world the compelling story of carrying to term a baby she knew was going to die.

The baby, a girl named April because of the month she was due, was to be born with a rare disorder called holoprosencephaly that would prevent her brain from properly developing, cause her face to be deformed and ultimately result in her early death.

In just a few short months, hundreds of thousands of readers driven to the site from other anti-abortion and religious sites praised the mother for her strength and her devout Christian faith. . . .

The hoax was uncovered by the same women who read and commented on the site, littleoneapril.blogspot.com. Once-loyal readers became increasingly suspicious by a lack of information, constantly changing due dates and a planned home delivery.

But it was the photo of baby April Rose, posted for a moment and then taken down, that would unravel the intricate weeks-long lie.

“It wasn’t a photo of a baby at all,” said Elizabeth Russell, a mother and maker of lifelike Reborn Dolls, “It was a doll. I have that same doll.” . . .

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Posted: 13 June 2009 08:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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What else needs to be said? It’s almost funny…having to live amongst these…these…“people”.
Make up a story about being pregnant with a doomed child….then have it realized a hoax by the same wackaloons that supported you.
Shoot a doctor, in his church, because he performs abortions. Just like muslim extremists blowing up other muslim worshipers at their mosques.
Live in a deluded existence, whereby you cut open another woman, and steal the fetus, claiming it for your own, killing the real mother.
(how many times has this one happened?)

“....maker of Reborn Dolls…...” Reborn Dolls?!!?.....Reborn Dolls? Do all these people either have dolls and/or make them? I can see them talking to their dolls. Really!! You know they do. Some probably imagine their dolls imbued with the spirit of an aborted child. Reborn Dolls….Reborn Dolls??? How pathetic can it get?

[ Edited: 13 June 2009 09:10 AM by VYAZMA ]
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Posted: 13 June 2009 09:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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Jules - 02 June 2009 05:04 PM

I forget which Christian BigWig it was, Pat Robertson? One of those guys? (700 Club?) But I will NEVER forget the quote. He went on and on about how abortion was murder, no exceptions, God would bring wrath on the earth, etc. etc. because of abortion.

The funny thing is, it will be the Xians such as Pat Robertson doing it, not some deity.  Maybe I should clarify a bit- it will be those loose cannons that Robertson encourages with his preaching who will do it and it when it happens, they will say God did it, instead of laying blame where it really belongs.

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Posted: 25 June 2009 05:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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asanta - 31 May 2009 12:14 PM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/31/george-tiller-killed-abor_n_209504.html

Dr George Tiller was an obstetrician that provided among other women’s services, late term abortions. In the past, his clinics have been bombed, he was shot in both arms and now he has been murdered—ironically, outside of his church…probably in the name of ‘god’. Dr. Tiller provided so much to the care of the health of women and endured threats and disruptions to his privacy and safety to provide late term abortions as well as professional grief counseling for the women he served. Unfortunately, some opponents -almost always a man who coincidentally could NEVER be pregnant—who have been unsuccessful in overturning Roe v Wade have decided that the second best way to end abortions is NOT education, but murdering the providers. Late term abortions are not done lightly, and are done for many, many reasons too numerous to list, and most medical schools under pressure from the religious wrong, no longer teach budding doctors how to perform them.
I have to take issue with the way the HuffPost described Dr Tiller as an ‘Abortion Doctor’, when he was so much more…including a HERO, an overused word I do not use lightly.

I find it so interesting that pro-abortionists focus on Dr. Tiller who killed one person and neglect the over 50,000,000 babies that have been killed.  gulp That’s because the single biggest rationale in the world for mass murder is to claim that the victims being murdered are either non-humans or sub humans like the Nazi’s did with the Jews. Then it’s as easy to kill people as killing a gnat.

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Posted: 25 June 2009 06:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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Carico - 25 June 2009 05:58 AM

I find it so interesting that pro-abortionists focus on Dr. Tiller who killed one person and neglect the over 50,000,000 babies that have been killed.  gulp That’s because the single biggest rationale in the world for mass murder is to claim that the victims being murdered are either non-humans or sub humans like the Nazi’s did with the Jews. Then it’s as easy to kill people as killing a gnat.

A cell is not a person. Nor is a small mass of cells.

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Posted: 25 June 2009 06:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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dougsmith - 25 June 2009 06:23 AM
Carico - 25 June 2009 05:58 AM

I find it so interesting that pro-abortionists focus on Dr. Tiller who killed one person and neglect the over 50,000,000 babies that have been killed.  gulp That’s because the single biggest rationale in the world for mass murder is to claim that the victims being murdered are either non-humans or sub humans like the Nazi’s did with the Jews. Then it’s as easy to kill people as killing a gnat.

A cell is not a person. Nor is a small mass of cells.

You’re a mass of cells. So by your “reasoning” you’re not a person.

But your prove my point that in order to commit murder, one has to deny the humanity of his murder victim. And in this case, you have to contradict yourself to do it or call yourself a non-human as well. So that’s not even a good rationalization even by murderer’s standards.  oh oh But most murderers eventually give up trying to even rationalize their behavior. They simply enjoy killing too much that they eventually stop trying to justify it. They do whatever suits their desires.

[ Edited: 25 June 2009 06:30 AM by Carico ]
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Posted: 25 June 2009 06:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Carico - 25 June 2009 06:28 AM
dougsmith - 25 June 2009 06:23 AM
Carico - 25 June 2009 05:58 AM

I find it so interesting that pro-abortionists focus on Dr. Tiller who killed one person and neglect the over 50,000,000 babies that have been killed.  gulp That’s because the single biggest rationale in the world for mass murder is to claim that the victims being murdered are either non-humans or sub humans like the Nazi’s did with the Jews. Then it’s as easy to kill people as killing a gnat.

A cell is not a person. Nor is a small mass of cells.

You’re a mass of cells. So by your “reasoning” you’re not a person.

But your prove my point that in order to commit murder, one has to deny the humanity of his murder victim. And in this case, you have to contradict yourself to do is or call yourself a non-human as well. So that’s not even a good rationalization even by murderer’s standards.  oh oh

I am not a small mass of cells without a functioning brain.

A zygote is a small mass of cells without a functioning brain.

A small mass of cells without a functioning brain is not a person.

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Posted: 25 June 2009 06:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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dougsmith - 25 June 2009 06:30 AM
Carico - 25 June 2009 06:28 AM
dougsmith - 25 June 2009 06:23 AM
Carico - 25 June 2009 05:58 AM

I find it so interesting that pro-abortionists focus on Dr. Tiller who killed one person and neglect the over 50,000,000 babies that have been killed.  gulp That’s because the single biggest rationale in the world for mass murder is to claim that the victims being murdered are either non-humans or sub humans like the Nazi’s did with the Jews. Then it’s as easy to kill people as killing a gnat.

A cell is not a person. Nor is a small mass of cells.

You’re a mass of cells. So by your “reasoning” you’re not a person.

But your prove my point that in order to commit murder, one has to deny the humanity of his murder victim. And in this case, you have to contradict yourself to do is or call yourself a non-human as well. So that’s not even a good rationalization even by murderer’s standards.  oh oh

I am not a small mass of cells without a functioning brain.

A zygote is a small mass of cells without a functioning brain.

A small mass of cells without a functioning brain is not a person.

So by your reasoning we should kill retarted people who don’t have a functioning brain. That’s what the Nazi’s did as well. Once people think they can determine who lives and who dies, it’s not hard to escalate the killing. They thought they could determine who was fit to live and fit to die. Well I got news for you; one has to have a conscience before he has a functioning brain.  So you’re describing yourself as well. But unlike you, I don’t justify murdering you because your brain isn’t functioning like a human. But one can’t convince pro-abortionists to stop murdering any more than one could convince the Nazi’s to until their country was destroyed.

[ Edited: 25 June 2009 06:38 AM by Carico ]
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Posted: 25 June 2009 06:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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Carico - 25 June 2009 06:34 AM

So by your reasoning we should kill retarted people who don’t have a functioning brain. That’s what the Nazi’s did as well. Once people think they can determine who lives and who dies, it’s not hard to escalate the killing. They thought they could determine who was fit to live and fit to die. Well I got news for you; one has to have a conscience before he has a functioning brain.  So you’re describing yourself as well. But unlike you, I don’t justify murdering you because your brain isn’t functioning like a human.

Retarded people have functioning brains. Brain dead people don’t. That’s why hospitals harvest organs from brain dead people.

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Posted: 25 June 2009 06:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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dougsmith - 25 June 2009 06:38 AM
Carico - 25 June 2009 06:34 AM

So by your reasoning we should kill retarted people who don’t have a functioning brain. That’s what the Nazi’s did as well. Once people think they can determine who lives and who dies, it’s not hard to escalate the killing. They thought they could determine who was fit to live and fit to die. Well I got news for you; one has to have a conscience before he has a functioning brain.  So you’re describing yourself as well. But unlike you, I don’t justify murdering you because your brain isn’t functioning like a human.

Retarded people have functioning brains. Brain dead people don’t. That’s why hospitals harvest organs from brain dead people.

I got news for you;  dead things can’t grow. Unborn babies can. So their brain is not dead.

So another lie to justify committing mass murder. oh oh So you’re digging a pit so deep for yourself that it will last throughout eternity. You can never wash the blood off your hands. Never. Your hands will be stained forever becuase no one can wipe it away unless you come to the cross. And trying to shut Christians up won’t take the blood off your hands either, it’s will just increase it. So I’m afriad your eternal life won’t be a good one.

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Posted: 25 June 2009 06:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Carico - 25 June 2009 06:41 AM

I got news for you;  dead things can’t grow. Unborn babies can. So their brain is not dead.

Eh? I didn’t say it was dead, I said it wasn’t a person. A brain dead child will also grow, but its organs will be harvested as well because it is no longer a person.

Please respond to the argument I’m actually making rather than some other argument.

Also, although it makes no difference to me, you are I am sure aware that the Bible doesn’t consider a fetus to be a person? The Bible only discusses abortion in one place: Ex. 21:22-25. In the original Hebrew version, an injury to a pregnant woman that creates a miscarriage is paid for by a fine, not by death as it would be if the fetus were a person.

As I say, the Bible is not a source of ethical truths, so citing it in this context is irrelevant, but it might be of interest to someone who takes those sorts of things more seriously than they deserve.

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Posted: 25 June 2009 07:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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dougsmith - 25 June 2009 06:55 AM
Carico - 25 June 2009 06:41 AM

I got news for you;  dead things can’t grow. Unborn babies can. So their brain is not dead.

Eh? I didn’t say it was dead, I said it wasn’t a person. A brain dead child will also grow, but its organs will be harvested as well because it is no longer a person.

Please respond to the argument I’m actually making rather than some other argument.

Also, although it makes no difference to me, you are I am sure aware that the Bible doesn’t consider a fetus to be a person? The Bible only discusses abortion in one place: Ex. 21:22-25. In the original Hebrew version, an injury to a pregnant woman that creates a miscarriage is paid for by a fine, not by death as it would be if the fetus were a person.

As I say, the Bible is not a source of ethical truths, so citing it in this context is irrelevant, but it might be of interest to someone who takes those sorts of things more seriously than they deserve.

wrong. The brain in an unborn baby is still developing so it’s not dead. In fact, the largest growth in any human being is from a fetus to delivery. So an unborn baby is the healthiest of all humans.


An unborn baby is also like every human being who depends on food, oxygen and water to live. After birth, humans get that from the outside world. Before birth, humans get it from the womb. So there is no physical difference betwee an unborn baby and a human after birth because all humans are in different stages of development. But the one major difference is that unbon babies are the most innocent and helpless of all human beings. And those are the ones who people want to kill.

So it takes a particularly cold and ruthless mind to do that. So since your arguments are nothing but ridiculous attempts to justify murder by making false claims, then you might as well not add ignorance to your desire to justify murder and simply admit you like to get rid of people who are in your way.

[ Edited: 25 June 2009 07:09 AM by Carico ]
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Posted: 25 June 2009 07:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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Carico - 25 June 2009 07:06 AM

wrong. The brain in an unborn baby is still developing so it’s not dead.

Again, I didn’t say it was dead. I said it wasn’t a person.

Did you read what I wrote?

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Posted: 25 June 2009 07:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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Carico, I think you are looking at this at an all or nothing situation.  Let’s take an extreme case that requires a late term abortion to save the woman’s life-  Some babies die in the womb during the last trimester.  To force a woman to carry a corpse until her body expels it, thus having a stillborn, can cause her the very same infection that a woman gets if she were to have an illegal abortion.  The body literally attacks the fetus as though it is an unwanted parasite and it is in this case, but while the body attacks itself the woman gets very sick.  This septic infection is deadly.  Instead of one being dead, you now have two people dead.  Gee, thanks a lot.  What are you going to kill if the fetus is already dead?  Absolutely nothing!  You just killed two by not allowing her to abort the corpse.  NICE!  NOT!

Second senerio- the little girl who was raped by her father.  Most are too scared, under threat of their father to tell anyone and she goes unnotice until the last trimester.  Now, given that she is not fully grown, mentally or physically, to force her to give birth could do damage to her mentally and even kill her because she is not fully developed or even big enough to give birth to a child.  Gee, thanks a lot.  You just killed a little girl in order to save a fetus that may or may not be healthy and could possibly die anyway.  So what was the purpose of forcing a baby to give birth to “a baby”?  Again, you just killed two instead of allow the baby abort the fetus.  That is mighty Christian of you.  Thanks a lot for allowing a precious child to die because her father raped her.  Blame the victim and impose potential death as you allow your ficticious “heavenly doctor” to do His so called deeds, but in reality, know this, by outlawing abortion, you kill more people than save people.

When I was pregnant with my older son the dr literally called the blastocyst, the zygote, and the fetus a leech as a means to describe how it survives until birth and that is exactly what every stage of pregnancy involves.  The unborn is a leech and cannot viably survive on its own without health problems or even death.  No, I never had an abortion by choice, but I did have a spontaneous abortion once, which was more painful emotionally than physically.

Which takes me to my last point, a miscarriage is medically called a “spontaneous abortion”.  You deity kills more “babies” before the end of the first trimester than any human being has.  Add to that the spontaneous abortions that happen in the second trimester and by the time you are done, your supposed god over the years has killed more babies than Hitler, a Catholic, killed people. Oh yes, I will agree that a spontaneous abortion is nature’s way of remedying a bad situation for whatever reason, but I do not blame the spontaneous abortion I had on any deity.  There was no reason for it, except that my own body was not ready for another pregnancy so soon after the first one (4 months later), so my body expelled/aborted the pregnancy. The thing is, so many religious people said, “God had His reasons for making you have a miscarriage”.  I do not believe that.

What makes a natural abortion better than a woman choosing to abort a pregnancy?  Nothing IMO.  It is all the same and for the woman it is a matter of choice for various reasons- health, life and death, inability to care for a disabled child, and a slew of other viable reasons.  The majority of women, according to organizations such as NARAL, Planned Parenthood, Reality Check, and alike say that women who have an abortion generally feel liberated by it and the idea that they feel otherwise was a myth started by the Religious Reich.  IF you would like to educate yourself about abortion and get accurate information about it, I suggest you go to reliable sites or their places of business and educate yourself on the matter.  A woman is not killing anything when she has an abortion, at least no more so than when she has a spontaneous abortion, but rather perpetuating life.

I have not seen you try to pull this one yet, but just in case, the Bible is silent on the subject of abortion.  In fact, it talks about ripping the fruit out of the woman’s womb, stoning women and children, even rejoicing that babies are slammed against rocks, the list goes on and on, but it does not condemn abortions.  Again, by the time one is finished with the OT God is attributed for/with/to more deaths of women and children than Hitler.  For Pete sakes!  He killed Job’s children even, as a stupid test!  Oh yes, he replaced said children, but they were not the SAME children.  You cannot replace children who have actually been born and lived on this earth.  One can replace a series of cells- like a blastocyst or zygote, but not a human being.

Tiller was NOT a mass murder.  He saved lives!  He saved more lives than your supposed deity ever has, because by your ideas and beliefs, the death rate would have been double that of Tiller’s.  I rather see one pregnancy aborted than two die because abortion was illegal or forbidden.

Now, after all that is said, do you really want to continue down this ignorant line of reasoning of yours or get an education about abortions?

Here’s a few questions for you:  If you believe in heaven and all babies go to heaven, what are you so worried about?  Isn’t earth not your home, but rather heaven?  Why not allow the baby to go home then if its soul goes to heaven?  Seems a great waste to be so worried about a child living to experience such a place made horrid by religious dogma.  But if you wish to continue down this road, I do have more where that came from.

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/reader-diaries/2009/06/22/tiller-was-no-baby-killer

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Posted: 25 June 2009 07:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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There is a very old norm in society.  We are born, and this is the
big event that begins a person’s life.  We celebrate this birthday
years after.  We talk about citizens’ rights with phrases like
“born free”, “birth rights”, “natural born citizen”.  Birth has
been the standard that marks the start of life, it has been
standard for a long time; whatever the word life means… birth
is the societal norm for its start.  This norm stretches back
to a time when we didn’t know about fetal development, zygotes,
congenital disorders, and the definition of life, we still
don’t know.  These are observable facts.

Typically, when people don’t know, then you get this intense
contentions about which answer is right, in the opinion of the
person speaking.

As we learn more the zealots want to get their ideas codified
BEFORE the full facts arrive.  That cheating, really.  The norm
is being violated by some, who want to say that life begins at
conception.  If that were true, that radical change from the norm
would require a very strong basis of evidence before putting any
of those ideas to paper.  The supporters of those ideas will not
attempt to gather that proof to support their radical ideas.
They are being very irresponsible in their wordings and actions,
acting as though they are certain of that uncertainty.

Just because a zygote gets fertilized does not mean that it
will become human, miscarriages and a wide variety of congenital
disorders ruin that process regularly.  And if you think that each
cell with a full set of human chromosomes equals a person, then
convince me of that by holding funerals for the dust in your home,
which is mostly made of human cells with complete chromosome sets,
each of them YOUR VERY OWN cells.

If the radicals want to convince me of their radical proposal,
they’ll have to do a much better job of it.  I won’t be jumping
on their band wagon anytime soon.

Tiller’s murder is so sad and wasteful.  It is religious terrorism
against the medical people who are so loyal to us.  Shame, guilt,
and the most awful dishonors belong on his murder’s head, may his
murder’s name be made a “poster child” for Christian terrorism in
the USA.

[ Edited: 25 June 2009 08:20 AM by jump_in_the_pit ]
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