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ISLAM IS A CLEAR ANTONYM OF SECULARISM…the two terms together are an obvious condradiction…
Posted: 16 July 2009 03:27 PM   [ Ignore ]
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Being secular is in fact being separate from religion; Islam is not only a religion, but all-encompassing way of life. Islam is submission to the will of Allah in every aspect of our lives (All-Mighty God, Dios, ....one and the same.) There is no separation between Islam and Life, for Islam is the point of Life. 
The religion of Islam governs every aspect of our lives from childbirth to prayer to business to marriage to death, etc, etc, etc (whether we adhere to it correctly or not is another matter to be addressed by practicing muslims of sound mind to muslims accordingly, certainly not by heretics and atheists and those others with evil intentions).
The fact is, Islam is not separated from any part of our lives.
Therefore, to use the term ‘secularislam’ (whether in your misleading url or otherwise, makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. It is a complete contradiction in meanings)...
The truth is, secularist want to create their own rules based on their own whims and desires, ignorance, etc, etc…
Islam is a roadblock in their (secularist) evil plots, since Islam is based on worshiping the creator of all things, as apposed to worshiping all things created (as done by the secularist)...
Just because you desire something, or you use those loser clichés (oh, do whatever feels right…oh it’s all what’s in your heart…oh do what makes you feel good..etc.) doesn’t make it ok to involve ourselves in that matter of desire… If you disagree with that statement, then you are indirectly (or maybe directly) condoning such evil acts as murder, rape, etc… If you read some of the interviews with serial killers and other criminals, you will notice they all say in some way that they did what they did based on DESIRES, EMOTIONS, etc… Many evil people in history committed crimes that they merely brush off as being what they felt was the right thing to do (of course based on their whims and desires, emotions, etc…)
Secularist merely follow the same pattern of ‘It makes me feel good so I’ll do it’ mentality. They don’t want to follow Islam because they are cowards to live in and deal with reality, as apposed to living in their make-believe fantasy lives… They live a life of falsehood, because life is just so much easier for them to deal with when they aren’t really dealing with life at all. They just make-up their own fantasy as they go along in their miserable lives… intellect is one of the characteristics which differentiates us from animals…of which anyone claiming secularism has probably forgotten in the toilet. Rather than trying to invent your own ‘purpose of life’ gimmick, you need to realize you didn’t create yourselves, and you can’t prevent the end of yourselves, and the world was not created for you to do whatever whenever to whomever based on your own ignorant self-invented copycat mentality.
The fact is, secular or not, we will all still die one day, and your daydreaming can’t change that fact…
So, logic would tell anyone of sound mind, “why don’t you stop living without a real purpose (besides what you make-up as you go along), and start at least investigating with SINCERITY why you are HERE. God-Almighty Willing, you will be guided to the truth.

I apologize if I seemed a bit harsh, but really, think about it, you only have one life, and you will die without notice, and you can’t do anything to change that fact…Don’t YOU atleast respect yourselves enough to believe you deserve to know the truth of why you were created, while you still have the opportunity…It’s your Right to Know why you were created.. Don’t belittle yourselves by blind-following the blind… Give yourself what you are entitled to, the Truth..

I Sincerely Ask God All-mighty to guide us ALL to what he Loves, and protect us from that which he Hates. ameen.

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Posted: 16 July 2009 04:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Thank you Advisor, please say a prayer for me. Peace-out!

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Row row row your boat gently down the stream.  Merrily Merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream!

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Posted: 16 July 2009 07:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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I have no idea what you are talking about, Advisor.  Your post makes no sense, esp the ending.  Are you here to evangelize or to what?  I would suggest you read the rules if that is the case.

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 16 July 2009 07:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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MRIANA, this quote came to mind when i read your empty response to the post:

“I have opinions of my own—strong opinions—but I don’t always agree with them.
-George Bush

No, i wasn’t trying to ‘evangelize’...

Regarding your response, what exactly about the comment(s) don’t you understand. I will be more than willing to clarify them.

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Posted: 16 July 2009 09:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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What does what you just posted have to do with whatever I said about the Shrub?  Your second one makes no sense either.

As for what doesn’t make sense about your first post- the whole thing.  It reads like some bizarre evangelizing thing.

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Posted: 16 July 2009 09:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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not a debater, just an adviser… - 16 July 2009 03:27 PM

Being secular is in fact being separate from religion; Islam is not only a religion, but all-encompassing way of life. Islam is submission to the will of Allah in every aspect of our lives (All-Mighty God, Dios, ....one and the same.) There is no separation between Islam and Life, for Islam is the point of Life.

Still doesn’t make you ‘allah’ anymore than a figment of your collective imagination. Nothing you have posted proves otherwise.

not a debater, just an adviser… - 16 July 2009 03:27 PM

The religion of Islam governs every aspect of our lives from childbirth to prayer to business to marriage to death, etc, etc, etc (whether we adhere to it correctly or not is another matter to be addressed by practicing muslims of sound mind to muslims accordingly, certainly not by heretics and atheists and those others with evil intentions).

Oh goody, I get to be evil! I will have to pass that on to the parents of the thousands of children whose lives I have helped to save!

not a debater, just an adviser… - 16 July 2009 03:27 PM

The fact is, Islam is not separated from any part of our lives.
Therefore, to use the term ‘secularislam’ (whether in your misleading url or otherwise, makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. It is a complete contradiction in meanings)...

I have searched high and low, but nowhere in our URL can I find a reference to ‘secularislam’

not a debater, just an adviser… - 16 July 2009 03:27 PM

The truth is, secularist want to create their own rules based on their own whims and desires, ignorance, etc, etc…
Islam is a roadblock in their (secularist) evil plots, since Islam is based on worshiping the creator of all things, as apposed to worshiping all things created (as done by the secularist)...
Just because you desire something, or you use those loser clichés (oh, do whatever feels right…oh it’s all what’s in your heart…oh do what makes you feel good..etc.) doesn’t make it ok to involve ourselves in that matter of desire… If you disagree with that statement, then you are indirectly (or maybe directly) condoning such evil acts as murder, rape, etc… If you read some of the interviews with serial killers and other criminals, you will notice they all say in some way that they did what they did based on DESIRES, EMOTIONS, etc… Many evil people in history committed crimes that they merely brush off as being what they felt was the right thing to do (of course based on their whims and desires, emotions, etc…)
Secularist merely follow the same pattern of ‘It makes me feel good so I’ll do it’ mentality. They don’t want to follow Islam because they are cowards to live in and deal with reality, as apposed to living in their make-believe fantasy lives… They live a life of falsehood, because life is just so much easier for them to deal with when they aren’t really dealing with life at all. They just make-up their own fantasy as they go along in their miserable lives… intellect is one of the characteristics which differentiates us from animals…of which anyone claiming secularism has probably forgotten in the toilet. Rather than trying to invent your own ‘purpose of life’ gimmick, you need to realize you didn’t create yourselves, and you can’t prevent the end of yourselves, and the world was not created for you to do whatever whenever to whomever based on your own ignorant self-invented copycat mentality.
The fact is, secular or not, we will all still die one day, and your daydreaming can’t change that fact…
So, logic would tell anyone of sound mind, “why don’t you stop living without a real purpose (besides what you make-up as you go along), and start at least investigating with SINCERITY why you are HERE. God-Almighty Willing, you will be guided to the truth.

I apologize if I seemed a bit harsh, but really, think about it, you only have one life, and you will die without notice, and you can’t do anything to change that fact…Don’t YOU atleast respect yourselves enough to believe you deserve to know the truth of why you were created, while you still have the opportunity…It’s your Right to Know why you were created.. Don’t belittle yourselves by blind-following the blind… Give yourself what you are entitled to, the Truth..

.....this part of your post makes no sense, argumentum ad populum doesn’t make any argument valid, the argument has to be valid on it’s own merits and yours falls far short.

I Sincerely Ask God All-mighty to guide us ALL to what he Loves, and protect us from that which he Hates. ameen.

I’m sure you are sincere, I don’t know what you think you will accomplish since most of us don’t believe in your magical being. It also doesn’t appear that you have read the rules of our forum. While we are happy to discuss differences with theist, there are rules against multiple postings as well as proselytizing. You’ve got a ‘twofer’ here!

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Church; where sheep congregate to worship a zombie on a stick that turns into a cracker on Sundays…

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Posted: 16 July 2009 09:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Due to being two threads that were exactly the same, the other was removed.  Please see the rules about spamming here, Advisor.

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Mriana
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Posted: 16 July 2009 09:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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asanta - 16 July 2009 09:11 PM
not a debater, just an adviser… - 16 July 2009 03:27 PM

The truth is, secularist want to create their own rules based on their own whims and desires, ignorance, etc, etc…
Islam is a roadblock in their (secularist) evil plots, since Islam is based on worshiping the creator of all things, as apposed to worshiping all things created (as done by the secularist)...
Just because you desire something, or you use those loser clichés (oh, do whatever feels right…oh it’s all what’s in your heart…oh do what makes you feel good..etc.) doesn’t make it ok to involve ourselves in that matter of desire… If you disagree with that statement, then you are indirectly (or maybe directly) condoning such evil acts as murder, rape, etc… If you read some of the interviews with serial killers and other criminals, you will notice they all say in some way that they did what they did based on DESIRES, EMOTIONS, etc… Many evil people in history committed crimes that they merely brush off as being what they felt was the right thing to do (of course based on their whims and desires, emotions, etc…)
Secularist merely follow the same pattern of ‘It makes me feel good so I’ll do it’ mentality. They don’t want to follow Islam because they are cowards to live in and deal with reality, as apposed to living in their make-believe fantasy lives… They live a life of falsehood, because life is just so much easier for them to deal with when they aren’t really dealing with life at all. They just make-up their own fantasy as they go along in their miserable lives… intellect is one of the characteristics which differentiates us from animals…of which anyone claiming secularism has probably forgotten in the toilet. Rather than trying to invent your own ‘purpose of life’ gimmick, you need to realize you didn’t create yourselves, and you can’t prevent the end of yourselves, and the world was not created for you to do whatever whenever to whomever based on your own ignorant self-invented copycat mentality.
The fact is, secular or not, we will all still die one day, and your daydreaming can’t change that fact…
So, logic would tell anyone of sound mind, “why don’t you stop living without a real purpose (besides what you make-up as you go along), and start at least investigating with SINCERITY why you are HERE. God-Almighty Willing, you will be guided to the truth.

I apologize if I seemed a bit harsh, but really, think about it, you only have one life, and you will die without notice, and you can’t do anything to change that fact…Don’t YOU atleast respect yourselves enough to believe you deserve to know the truth of why you were created, while you still have the opportunity…It’s your Right to Know why you were created.. Don’t belittle yourselves by blind-following the blind… Give yourself what you are entitled to, the Truth..

.....this part of your post makes no sense, argumentum ad populum doesn’t make any argument valid, the argument has to be valid on it’s own merits and yours falls far short.

I’m not the only one who says the post makes no sense and it is this section that is the majority of the original post.

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Posted: 16 July 2009 10:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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To summarize:
No arguments here… The truth is to be advised, not argued. Just to clarify, the link to this forum stems from http://www.secularislam.org which is a clear misrepresentation as secular denotes completely non-religious, and islam completely religious, so I decided to post my comments…

I understand you don’t believe in one sole creator, or any creator at all; it’s obvious by your posts, but you now have an opportunity to explain to me why I should believe what you believe to be the truth…

I am asking for information, not arguing, etc… Just like others on this forum ask for information from you all, I am doing the same… The truth is the truth, regardless of anyone’s opinion..

So, as I believe, when the truth is known, it is upon us (including myself) to accept it…

So, explain to me (atheist, secularist, humanist, etc…), what is the purpose of creation, what is the purpose of life? How are we supposed to live our lives?

(((please don’t respond with any variation of the following:
example:
atheist A - well, i think…....
secularist B - well, i believe…......
humanist C - well, i feel…..... )))

I want facts, not opinions…


____________________________________________________

Since you deleted my other post (understandably, and my apologies for not reading the rules), I will respond to the George post here:

George, if you are relying solely on science to give a reason for existence, save yourself the trouble. In the past century, through science, secularist have just begun to learn things which were already known centuries ago. Science however may be used as an additional proof of what is already known.

example (read it all, and you’ll understand the point, God willing):
Internal waves on the ocean floor: even we are not able to see these waves firsthand, not even with the most technologically advanced submarines…we would be crushed on the way down (3 miles +)... ”.......On a smaller scale, internal waves (long recognized as a curiosity) became part of the oceanographic mainstream.”.....“In 1931, Ekman took some current measurements with a string of Ekman meters suspended on a vertical mooring.” - http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9702&page=46”

“Midnight Zone: Ninety percent of the ocean is in the midnight zone. It is entirely dark—there is no light. The water pressure is extreme. The temperature is near freezing.
The midnight zone is also called the aphotic zone. ” - http://mbgnet.info/salt/oceans/zone.htm

The only way they can tell an internal wave (ocean floor wave) is coming is through readings from specially equipped robots which measure the water density, salinity, etc change as the wave sweeps across the ocean floor… keep in mind, the wave can’t be seen, only sensed with the equipment on the robots. And, light doesn’t reach most of the ocean floor, so you couldn’t see it any way…

Yet, the answer has been around for so much longer, but too many people don’t want to know the truth, unless they can take the credit for discovering it themselves…

The Noble Quran - Muhsin Khan (explanation of the meaning) 24:40

Or [the state of a disbeliever] is like the darkness in a vast deep sea, overwhelmed with a great wave topped by a great wave, topped by dark clouds, darkness, one above another, if a man stretches out his hand, he can hardly see it! And he for whom Allah has not appointed light, for him there is no light.

Islam was revealed over 1400 years ago, yet states what scientist claim to have just discovered within the last century, and even today no man no has been able to reach the ocean floor to see with his (or her) own eyes what is reported by (secular) scientist and as is clearly stated in the Quran revealed over 1400 years ago.

You owe it to yourself to know why you were created… Don’t let people’s opinions carry your judgments… Once the truth has become apparent, it is upon us to accept it as such…

———————————————————————————-
Why Are We Here?
http://www.bakkah.net

In the Name of Almighty GOD, the All-Merciful, the One who created the heavens and the earth and everything in them, the only One who deserves mankind’s worship…

A simple look at the world around us is all it takes to understand what many never take time to reflect upon. The details of this awesome universe we live in explicitly prove the presence of a magnificent and unequaled author.

Some try to deny His existence, relying on their invented theories, assumptions derived from unproven conjecture and guesses. They conjure principles that no rational mind can follow. For example, they say that our universe is a “cosmic coincidence,” a result of billions of years of random self-assembly. However, if they would come out of their house in the morning and find a new car in their driveway, they would demand to know who put it there. Imagine if was said to them: “No one put it there, in fact the parts just gathered from unknown places and assembled themselves overnight with no one’s help. This is the result of a cosmic coicindence!”

No one in his right mind could accept this answer. Indeed GOD gave us intellects that do not allow us to believe such nonsense.

So if people can not accept the parts of a single car coming together randomly, then how can they believe that the entire universe accomplished such a feat?! From the sky full of stars and other visual wonders, to microscopic organisms we are still discovering, to the design and function of the organs of the human body, can one possibly believe that all of this is the result of a mere coincidence?

Look up and think about how everything you see is organized in such a perfect way! The sun, a ball of fire millions of miles away, provides us with the heat and light we depend on every day. About it, GOD says:

And I (GOD) made a blazing, radiant lantern (78:13)

After the length of the day, mankind indeed needs a rest from the warmth and illumination of the sun. GOD causes the sun to set and gives us darkness to rest, and a perfect nightlight the moon and the splendorous stars. What masterful organization! GOD says:

He (GOD) has put the night and the day in your service, as well as the sun, the moon, and the stars - all in subjection by His Command. Verily in this there are signs for people of intellect. (16:12)

And GOD says:

Don’t you see how GOD merges the night into the day and He merges the day into the night, (don’t you see) that He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law), each running its course for an appointed term? And surely GOD is well-acquainted with what you do. (31:29)

GOD also says:

Among His Signs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Do not prostrate to the sun or the moon, rather prostrate to GOD, the One who created them, if you really wish to worship Him. (41:37)

Today’s scientists comment on the precise balance of the sun and moon, guessing at the innumerous disasters that would occur if the sun or the moon were to stray from their paths the slightest bit. The rational mind can come to only one conclusion, that indeed something is keeping all of this in order. GOD says:

He (GOD) draws the night as a veil over the day, each seeking the other in rapid succession. He (GOD) created the sun, the moon, and the stars, all governed by His Command. Is it not His Right to create and govern? Blessed is GOD, the Cherisher and Sustainer of all that exists! (7:54)

We understand quite clearly that, since this paper you are reading was written, then there was a writer, even though you do not see him. And for every speech there was a speaker, and every delicious dish has a cook behind it. So for every creation, including our very existence, there is indeed a creator.

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Posted: 16 July 2009 11:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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You are still spouting the same thing over again.  I also do not think you read that page you linked to very well.  It says:

We see no colonialism, racism, or so-called “Islamaphobia” in submitting Islamic practices to criticism or condemnation when they violate human reason or rights.

We call on the governments of the world to

  * reject Sharia law, fatwa courts, clerical rule, and state-sanctioned religion in all their forms; oppose all penalties for blasphemy and apostasy, in accordance with Article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human rights;
  * eliminate practices, such as female circumcision, honor killing, forced veiling, and forced marriage, that further the oppression of women;
  * protect sexual and gender minorities from persecution and violence;
  * reform sectarian education that teaches intolerance and bigotry towards non-Muslims;
  * and foster an open public sphere in which all matters may be discussed without coercion or intimidation.

It is proposing the exact opposite of Islam.  I don’t know what you are talking about, but again you are not making any sense and spouting the same things over and over again, except with the addition of Quranic verses.

Also, there are no scientific discoveries of any kind in what you quoted either.

[ Edited: 16 July 2009 11:10 PM by Mriana ]
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Posted: 16 July 2009 11:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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From Wikipedia,Post hoc ergo propter hoc
Latin for “after this, therefore because (on account) of this”, is a logical fallacy (of the questionable cause variety) which states, “Since that event followed this one, that event must have been caused by this one.” It is often shortened to simply post hoc and is also sometimes referred to as false cause, coincidental correlation or correlation not causation. It is subtly different from the fallacy cum hoc ergo propter hoc, in which the chronological ordering of a correlation is insignificant.

Post hoc is a particularly tempting error because temporal sequence appears to be integral to causality. The fallacy lies in coming to a conclusion based solely on the order of events, rather than taking into account other factors that might rule out the connection. Most familiarly, many superstitious religious beliefs and magical thinking arise from this fallacy.

Your entire post is an example of this logical fallacy

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Church; where sheep congregate to worship a zombie on a stick that turns into a cracker on Sundays…

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Posted: 17 July 2009 04:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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MRIANA, you are confused again.. Here you are, more proofs for the discovery

http://siobiolum.ucsd.edu/Biolum_article.html

http://record.wustl.edu/archive/2000/12-15-00/articles/deepsea.html

http://www.sams.ac.uk/schools/intodeep.pdf

http://www.mostmerciful.com/chapter-10.htm

http://www.nhptv.org/natureworks/nwep6c.htm

http://www.seasky.org/monsters/sea7a3.html

http://www.answering-christianity.com/oceanography_and_layers_of_waves_and_darkness.mp3

...though there are many other ‘discoveries’ previously known of, yet somehow just recently discovered… I will be glad to provide more proofs, if you really want the truth…(embryonic process, meteorology, geogrophy, etc…).

As I stated already,

“http://www.secularislam.org which is a clear misrepresentation as secular denotes completely non-religious, and islam completely religious”

So, I understand very clearly what they are promoting, confusion… You cannot be secular, atheist, or whatever else, and be Muslim at the same time…The fact that they deny the religion, makes them not of that religion… It´s a complete contradiction - remember my post heading…

My previous question seems to have been bypassed…surely do to the fact that you yourselves cannot even begin to explain, in logical terms, how what you believe, or claim to believe, is actually true… So, I would like a complete answer to my questions based on your extensive knowledge of life, so what is the purpose of creation-life, and how are we supposed to live life… I am awaiting your educated response… Afterall, you wouldn´t want me to go through life without knowing the truth as you know it to be…

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Posted: 17 July 2009 06:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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ASANTA, copying and pasting something you don’t even understand yourself is cute and all but,....................

As for your previous comment

Oh goody, I get to be evil! I will have to pass that on to the parents of the thousands of children whose lives I have helped to save!

Life is very precious in Islam.

Muhammad Al-Hilali & Muhsin Khan (explanation of The Nobe Quran):
[5:32] 
..........if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind. And indeed, there came to them Our Messengers with clear proofs, evidences, and signs, even then after that many of them continued to exceed the limits (e.g. by doing oppression unjustly and exceeding beyond the limits set by Allah by committing the major sins) in the land!.

To help save a life is a beautiful act…but who created that life you helped save? It wasn’t you. If it was anyone you know, please explain to me how they were able to get a soul into that body, and allow it to breath, and think… My friend had a man die in his arms from a heart-attack… so, explain to me why he wasn’t able to save that guys life, yet you have helped save so many lives… Or is the truth that we don’t have any control over life, because we didn’t created it, and we don’t chose when it ends… So, who created it, and who decides when it ends?...

As for your profile quote:
see below, the original quote was referring specifically to ‘men’ in government, and not exclusively to power, and certainly not GOD.


John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton, first Baron Acton (1834–1902). The historian and moralist, who was otherwise known simply as Lord Acton, expressed this opinion in a letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton in 1887:

“Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men.”

- http://www.phrases.org.uk

He had close ties to the roman catholic church…and fought (for the church) to separate the church from the state. (if I am wrong on any of this info, please correct me, with proofs)

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Posted: 17 July 2009 06:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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not a debater, just an adviser… - 16 July 2009 10:27 PM

George, if you are relying solely on science to give a reason for existence, save yourself the trouble. In the past century, through science, secularist have just begun to learn things which were already known centuries ago. Science however may be used as an additional proof of what is already known.

Cool. Can you show me where in Quran I can find the cure for AIDS and cancer? Why wait for science to discover it (or as you say to give us “the additional proof”) if the omniscient and omnibenevolent Allah surely included that in his book…

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Posted: 17 July 2009 06:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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not a debater, just an adviser… - 17 July 2009 04:55 AM

MRIANA, you are confused again.. Here you are, more proofs for the discovery

There is no modern science in the Quran.  It is all tribal mythology in which at the time they tried to explain the unexplainable, mostly with crazy superstitious and acting superior to others.

BTW, I am not confused about anything.  There is no science in what you quoted.

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Posted: 17 July 2009 07:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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not a debater, just an adviser… - 17 July 2009 06:23 AM

ASANTA, copying and pasting something you don’t even understand yourself is cute and all but,....................

As for your previous comment

Oh goody, I get to be evil! I will have to pass that on to the parents of the thousands of children whose lives I have helped to save!

Life is very precious in Islam.

Right!  Only if you are Muslim and the right sect of Muslim.  Please spare us the tripe.

So asanta copied and pasted.  That does not mean she did not understand it.

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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