3 of 8
3
Vitamin D supplements?
Posted: 04 August 2009 08:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7684
Joined  2008-04-11
dougsmith - 04 August 2009 05:07 PM
Jules - 04 August 2009 03:23 PM

However, I must tease that it’s the fault of CFI forums that I’m wary of any supplement! You’ve all made a vitamin skeptic out of me in topics past.  wink

Ha! Well, it always pays to be a skeptic. I’ll be interested if others come with further info on this topic ...

I am also a long time supplement skeptic. ‘Flavor of the month’ supplements always seem to have some unforeseen down side. I am in reasonable good health, eat a widely varied diet, get my dose of ‘Vitamin Sun’ regularly and try to get exercise.

 Signature 

Church; where sheep congregate to worship a zombie on a stick that turns into a cracker on Sundays…

Profile
 
 
Posted: 04 August 2009 08:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2457
Joined  2008-06-03

I had different thoughts regarding vitamin pills when I first joined the forum. You guys rubbed off on me over the past year!

 Signature 

Some people can read War and Peace and come away thinking it’s a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.    - Lex Luthor

Profile
 
 
Posted: 04 August 2009 08:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7684
Joined  2008-04-11
Jules - 04 August 2009 08:25 PM

I had different thoughts regarding vitamin pills when I first joined the forum. You guys rubbed off on me over the past year!

You mean we ‘indoctrinated you’ or is that ‘inculcated you’? wink ...or is it just a good ol’ fashioned brain washing!

 Signature 

Church; where sheep congregate to worship a zombie on a stick that turns into a cracker on Sundays…

Profile
 
 
Posted: 04 August 2009 10:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
Moderator
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5508
Joined  2006-10-22

Ah, ye of little faith.  Jules I’m surprised that you would accept the views of an RN, an MD, and a briliant philosopher over those of someone trained as a biochemist.  smile 

I’ve been taking well over the RDA of all vitamins for more than fifty years, and had only one problem.  Since my hero was Linus Pauling, I was taking nine grams of vitamin C daily.  Turns out that different people metabolize it differently as my urologist informed me when he found that I had a half dozen calcium oxalate stones in my kidneys.  I cut back to 3.5 grams a day twenty-five years ago and haven’t had any problem since.

I’m sure that there are some who would blame my vitamin ingestion for my being a crotchety wise-ass.  To that I say, poo.  LOL

Occam

Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 August 2009 04:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2457
Joined  2008-06-03

Occam, maybe all those high doses of vitamins have pickled you!  LOL

Asanta, I had just thought that multivitamins were “OK” when I first came on the forum, while now I see that they are unnecessary in most cases. Before that I’d thought of them as “insurance” of getting proper doses.

 Signature 

Some people can read War and Peace and come away thinking it’s a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.    - Lex Luthor

Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 August 2009 04:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  15435
Joined  2006-02-14
Jules - 05 August 2009 04:30 AM

Asanta, I had just thought that multivitamins were “OK” when I first came on the forum, while now I see that they are unnecessary in most cases. Before that I’d thought of them as “insurance” of getting proper doses.

Just to be clear, I wouldn’t advocate for multivitamins generally, and so far as I’m aware none of the organizations I cited at the top of this thread (Consumer Reports, UC Berkeley, Harvard) advocate for vitamin supplements apart from vitamin D.

 Signature 

Doug

-:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:-

El sueño de la razón produce monstruos

Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 August 2009 04:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  15435
Joined  2006-02-14

FWIW, HERE is the UC Berkeley Wellness Letter page on dietary supplements.

 Signature 

Doug

-:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:-

El sueño de la razón produce monstruos

Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 August 2009 06:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2457
Joined  2008-06-03
dougsmith - 05 August 2009 04:46 AM
Jules - 05 August 2009 04:30 AM

Asanta, I had just thought that multivitamins were “OK” when I first came on the forum, while now I see that they are unnecessary in most cases. Before that I’d thought of them as “insurance” of getting proper doses.

Just to be clear, I wouldn’t advocate for multivitamins generally, and so far as I’m aware none of the organizations I cited at the top of this thread (Consumer Reports, UC Berkeley, Harvard) advocate for vitamin supplements apart from vitamin D.

Oh yes, I was speaking of past topics in the forum, which had discussed multi-vitamins. Those were the topics/thread on CFI that got me to change my thinking on multivitimins. This in turn made me a bit more skeptical about supplements in general.

For example, I had been giving my son a popular pediatric multi-vitamin drink regularly, and now I realize that is unecessary. I think the turning point was when Asanta told me that in the pediatric ward of the hospital, they only give those pediatric vitamin drinks to kids who are unable to eat solid food or are deathly malnourished. Then I realized it was probably not necessary - I was just being a worried mom trying to “cover all my bases.”

Now when I hear about supplements, I stop and wonder “Is it really necessary?” Whereas before I would have thought “What’s the harm? It can only do good.”

 Signature 

Some people can read War and Peace and come away thinking it’s a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.    - Lex Luthor

Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 August 2009 07:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4576
Joined  2008-08-14
dougsmith - 05 August 2009 04:46 AM
Jules - 05 August 2009 04:30 AM

Asanta, I had just thought that multivitamins were “OK” when I first came on the forum, while now I see that they are unnecessary in most cases. Before that I’d thought of them as “insurance” of getting proper doses.

Just to be clear, I wouldn’t advocate for multivitamins generally, and so far as I’m aware none of the organizations I cited at the top of this thread (Consumer Reports, UC Berkeley, Harvard) advocate for vitamin supplements apart from vitamin D.

What do you guys think you’re getting when you eat bread, milk, or cereal? Just to name a few. All of these are enriched with vitamins and minerals. It’s no different than taking a vitamin. Maybe a vitamin has a wider variety, and in some cases, higher allowances.
If you think that you are not getting some RDA’s through your “natural” diet, and you wont take supplements because you think they are Woo Woo, then I hope you don’t eat cereal, most things made with flour, fortified orange juice etc etc…the list is almost endless.
Lot’s of foods are “artificially” fortified with vitamins and minerals. Woo Woo.

 Signature 

Row row row your boat gently down the stream.  Merrily Merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 August 2009 07:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  15435
Joined  2006-02-14
VYAZMA - 05 August 2009 07:25 AM

What do you guys think you’re getting when you eat bread, milk, or cereal? Just to name a few. All of these are enriched with vitamins and minerals. It’s no different than taking a vitamin. Maybe a vitamin has a wider variety, and in some cases, higher allowances.
If you think that you are not getting some RDA’s through your “natural” diet, and you wont take supplements because you think they are Woo Woo, then I hope you don’t eat cereal, most things made with flour, fortified orange juice etc etc…the list is almost endless.
Lot’s of foods are “artificially” fortified with vitamins and minerals. Woo Woo.

Vyazma, you misunderstand. The point is not that vitamins are woo, nor that vitamin supplements are woo. The point is that with our normal diet we don’t need to be supplementing it with additional multivitamin pills; they are not woo, they are unnecessary.

Except, that is, in the case of vitamin D. Or so it would seem from the data from these sources I’ve been citing.

 Signature 

Doug

-:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:-

El sueño de la razón produce monstruos

Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 August 2009 07:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4578
Joined  2007-08-31

There was an article about it in the scientific american.

ABOUT THE AUTHOR(S)
Luz E. Tavera-Mendoza and John H. White worked together in White’s laboratory at McGill University investigating the molecular activities of vitamin D in human cells. They have uncovered aspects of the vitamin’s role in cancer prevention and discovered, with their collaborators, that D regulates certain genes involved in cell responses to microbial invaders. Tavera-Mendoza is now a postdoctoral fellow at Harvard Medical School studying vitamin D and breast cancer. Having witnessed vitamin D’s health-protecting actions firsthand in the lab, both authors take supplements during the parts of the year when sunlight is too weak in the northern cities where they reside to produce adequate amounts in skin. White takes 4,000 international units of D3 daily during those “vitamin D winter” months, and Tavera-Mendoza takes 1,000.

HTH

GdB

 Signature 

GdB

“The light is on, but there is nobody at home”

Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 August 2009 07:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4576
Joined  2008-08-14

Doug-

Vyazma, you misunderstand. The point is not that vitamins are woo, nor that vitamin supplements are woo. The point is that with our normal diet we don’t need to be supplementing it with additional multivitamin pills; they are not woo, they are unnecessary.

Except, that is, in the case of vitamin D. Or so it would seem from the data from these sources I’ve been citing.

Define normal diet. Is this a diet in which all the necessary nutrients, vitamins and minerals are obtained in a day?
How many people eat this diet? All the people who do eat this diet, don’t need supplements- the rest do. The rest do by an extension of the Vitamin D case here.
I would say the “rest” is the majority of consumers.
And like I said, how many people would need to supplement their diet with pills, if many of the foods we eat weren’t “fortified” already?
I can only imagine the cases of scurvy and rickets if foods weren’t artificially fortified already.

 Signature 

Row row row your boat gently down the stream.  Merrily Merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 August 2009 07:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  15435
Joined  2006-02-14
VYAZMA - 05 August 2009 07:46 AM

Define normal diet. Is this a diet in which all the necessary nutrients, vitamins and minerals are obtained in a day?

Of course not. If it were, the claim would be circular. A normal diet in this context is a diet that most people eat.

VYAZMA - 05 August 2009 07:46 AM

All the people who do eat this diet, don’t need supplements- the rest do.  The rest do by an extension of the Vitamin D case here. I would say the “rest” is the majority of consumers.

Based on what data? The point is that there is no similar data that we ordinarily get insufficient amounts of other vitamins, as we appear to with vitamin D, so your “extension” is false.

VYAZMA - 05 August 2009 07:46 AM

And like I said, how many people would need to supplement their diet with pills, if many of the foods we eat weren’t “fortified” already?
I can only imagine the cases of scurvy and rickets if foods weren’t artificially fortified already.

Of course, some of the reason we don’t need to take additional vitamin pills is that our food is already (sufficiently) fortified. However, it does not appear sufficiently fortified with vitamin D. That’s the point.

 Signature 

Doug

-:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:-

El sueño de la razón produce monstruos

Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 August 2009 08:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4576
Joined  2008-08-14
dougsmith - 05 August 2009 07:54 AM
VYAZMA - 05 August 2009 07:46 AM

Define normal diet. Is this a diet in which all the necessary nutrients, vitamins and minerals are obtained in a day?

Of course not. If it were, the claim would be circular. A normal diet in this context is a diet that most people eat.

I can’t believe this is coming from you. “normal diet”...“most people”..

VYAZMA - 05 August 2009 07:46 AM

All the people who do eat this diet, don’t need supplements- the rest do.  The rest do by an extension of the Vitamin D case here. I would say the “rest” is the majority of consumers.

Based on what data? The point is that there is no similar data that we ordinarily get insufficient amounts of other vitamins, as we appear to with vitamin D, so your “extension” is false.

Like Jules or Asanta said above…“no data this month!“The US Govt. allowed TV commercials extolling the healing powers of Vita C…Zinc…contained in foods and supplements.

[ Edited: 05 August 2009 08:13 AM by VYAZMA ]
 Signature 

Row row row your boat gently down the stream.  Merrily Merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 August 2009 08:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  15435
Joined  2006-02-14
VYAZMA - 05 August 2009 08:04 AM

I can’t believe this is coming from you. “normal diet”...“most people”..

What’s the problem?

VYAZMA - 05 August 2009 08:04 AM

Like Jules or Asanta said above…“no data this month!“The US Govt. allowed TV commercials extolling the healing powers of Vita C…Zinc…contained in foods and supplements.

Nonsense.

 Signature 

Doug

-:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:-

El sueño de la razón produce monstruos

Profile
 
 
   
3 of 8
3