[size=18:3fb569de9c][color=darkblue:3fb569de9c]The following is a post from a humanist list serve
Jim[/color:3fb569de9c][/size:3fb569de9c]
[quote:3fb569de9c]Pope Declares War On Italy’s Government Over Gay Unions
by Malcolm Thornberry, 365Gay.com European Bureau Chief
May 11, 2006 - 1:00 pm ET
http://www.365gay.com/Newscon06/05/051106pope.htm
(Rome) Pope Benedict warned Italy’s new left-of-center government on Thursday that the Vatican will use all of its power to thwart any move to recognize same-sex couples.
Speaking at a Vatican conference on marriage and the family, Benedict condemned gay unions - especially marriage - noting that marriage must be a union between a man and a woman and must be open to procreation.
"Only the rock of total and irrevocable love between a man and a woman is capable of being the foundation of building a society that becomes a home for all mankind," the Pope told the conference.
His speech sparked immediate censure from Prime Minister Romano Prodi’s coalition.
Franco Grillini, an openly gay member of Italy’s lower house accused the Pope of trying "to write a political agenda" and of "ignoring the rights of million of Italians who live together".
Vladimir Luxuria, Europe’s first "transgender" lawmaker and another member of Prodi’s coalition accused the Pope of attempting to subvert democracy.  Luxuria said it was the duty of a lay state to "recognize and regulate" homosexual unions.
Prodi has been a supporter of moderate rights for same-sex couples since last July when he met with gay activists, but he opposes gay marriage. (story)
His planned bill would legalize civil partnerships, similar to those in Britain and other parts of the European Union.
He also has voiced his support for revamping hate crimes and reassignment surgery.[/quote:3fb569de9c]

Papal War on Gay Unions

The following is a post from a humanist list serve
Jim

Pope Declares War On Italy’s Government Over Gay Unions
by Malcolm Thornberry, 365Gay.com European Bureau Chief
May 11, 2006 - 1:00 pm ET
http://www.365gay.com/Newscon06/05/051106pope.htm
(Rome) Pope Benedict warned Italy’s new left-of-center government on Thursday that the Vatican will use all of its power to thwart any move to recognize same-sex couples.
Speaking at a Vatican conference on marriage and the family, Benedict condemned gay unions - especially marriage - noting that marriage must be a union between a man and a woman and must be open to procreation.
“Only the rock of total and irrevocable love between a man and a woman is capable of being the foundation of building a society that becomes a home for all mankind,” the Pope told the conference.
His speech sparked immediate censure from Prime Minister Romano Prodi’s coalition.
Franco Grillini, an openly gay member of Italy’s lower house accused the Pope of trying “to write a political agenda” and of “ignoring the rights of million of Italians who live together”.
Vladimir Luxuria, Europe’s first “transgender” lawmaker and another member of Prodi’s coalition accused the Pope of attempting to subvert democracy.  Luxuria said it was the duty of a lay state to “recognize and regulate” homosexual unions.
Prodi has been a supporter of moderate rights for same-sex couples since last July when he met with gay activists, but he opposes gay marriage. (story)
His planned bill would legalize civil partnerships, similar to those in Britain and other parts of the European Union.
He also has voiced his support for revamping hate crimes and reassignment surgery.

Doesn’t surprise me at all, Jim. Same church that was against women’s liberation for years, and is now relentlessly opposed to sex education and contraception.

The odd thing is that a bunch of bachelors who have sworn never to have sex should have any voice at all about what amounts to a “family” or how women or gays should live their lives ...

lol

Re: Papal War on Gay Unions

(Rome) Pope Benedict warned Italy’s new
left-of-center government on Thursday that the Vatican
will use all of its power to thwart any move to recognize
same-sex couples.  Speaking at a Vatican conference on
marriage and the family, Benedict condemned gay unions -
especially marriage - noting that marriage must be a union
between a man and a woman and must be open to procreation.
“Only the rock of total and irrevocable love between a
man and a woman is capable of being the foundation of
building a society that becomes a home for all mankind,”
the Pope told the conference.

I doubt that Pope John Paul II would have ever taken such a
strong stand against homosexual people.  He tried to being
people together, he would not have threatened people.  (No,
I’m not saying that he fully supported homosexual people.)
This is a characteristic of the new Pope Benedict XVI,
and not of the Catholic people.  I think that is how the
Catholic people will see it, because there is an obvious
divide between many (probably most) Catholic people and
the Vatican hierarchy.  Surely the right-wing will agree
with the Pope, the left-wing won’t, and the left-wing will
feel guilty for not agreeing.

I think that homosexual, and bisexual deserve full civil
rights, if they want to get married let them marry, society
will probably be better for it.  Let them adopt children,
visit their partners and decide for their partners in the
hospital, when appropriate.  All the rest, too.

Rock of love?  Yeah right!  That marriage for love, and
love will keep us together for life idea has worked out
real well in recent decades, sarcastically speaking.

But isn’t that the sort of vacuous BS that we’d expect to hear from men who get their idea of love, sex and male to female bonding from the movie screen the confessional and TV (of late).

The official position is wrecking the lives of thousands and thousands of Africans.

Jim

I wouldn’t get too het up by the priesthood ‘not being in a position’ to advise or comment due to their choice to forgo sex or have a traditional family life.
You don’t need to be raped to provide counselling for people that have been, you don’t need to have been a victim of crime to be part of a jury deciding the fate of someone that’s commited a crime.
Any critisism of the vatican’s actions should be based around the way they base their arguments on entrenched & out-dated positions + improbable hearsay.

[quote author=“Akmenzies”]I wouldn’t get too het up by the priesthood ‘not being in a position’ to advise or comment due to their choice to forgo sex or have a traditional family life.
You don’t need to be raped to provide counselling for people that have been, you don’t need to have been a victim of crime to be part of a jury deciding the fate of someone that’s commited a crime.
Any critisism of the vatican’s actions should be based around the way they base their arguments on entrenched & out-dated positions + improbable hearsay.

Excellent points, Akmenzies. My own concern isn’t so much that priests give marriage counseling or advice. It’s rather that they set themselves up as the ultimate arbitors of sex and marriage. They aren’t in the position to be ultimate arbitors, since, by their own lights, they know nothing firsthand about sex and marriage.

I wouldn’t be concerned if they stuck to just giving friendly advice.

Best,

The Vatican is the top of a hierarchy of men who were trained to become priests in a system that acquired the boys as postulates after they finished 8th grade. Most of the boys were admitted to pre-priesthood training centers at age 13.

From thirteen years of age most of the men who are in charge of the Catholic church have been taught that a life free of sex was the highest and best calling. They were taught that marriage was a relationship between man and woman in which sex was permitted because marriage was god’s design for procreation of children. They are taught from age thirteen that no form of birth control is acceptable and the use of condoms is mortally sinful. They are taught that the human soul enters the egg at the moment of conception and no form of mechanical or chemical birth control is allowed.

They are taught that sex without procreation as the goal of the parties is sinful and abhorrent..

And as to the comment that you don’t have to experience rape to counsel someone who has been raped, no that’s true you don’t but you have to be a trained victim’s advocate. One of the first things you learn is not to ever say, “I know how you feel”.
Victim advocacy has nothing whatever to do with whether priest’s are appropriate counselors in family crisis situations. I say they are not unless they have special secular training as a family counselor.

Doug’s point is the same as mine, priest set themselves up as be all and end all advisors to Catholic families.
That’s wrong.

Jim

Ethical Culture endorses same-sex marriages

I just read that the National Leaders Council of the Ethical Culture Societies endorsed homosexual marriages.
Bob

Good for them. What took so long?

:?

doug,
I asked myself the same question.
Bob

With the way the catholic church expells people it surpries me that they still have members left.