Abbra cadabbra…change him into a catholic priest. Would you STILL be making the same argument against prosecution?

Ouch! Asanta, you have a wicked mind! I doff my hat. 

asanta - 29 September 2009 05:20 PM

Abbra cadabbra…change him into a catholic priest. Would you STILL be making the same argument against prosecution?

Whoever is involved the question should be whether real harm was inflicted or not. If so, on what scale? Are we talking Jack-the-Ripper - or Lewis Carrol? Listening to these liberal bedwetting hysterics, you woudn’t know there’s any difference. 

Evidently the words ‘pedophilia’ and ‘rape’ are powerful enough to shut down all rational thought, analysis, and sense of proportion, not least among educated, intelligent people - which is why the state authorities of this sick capitalist society are so ready to wield them.

Again, I cannot speak to the specifics of this case, and neither can you. Why exactly is it impossible for a 13-year-old to consent to or actively desire sexual activity?  But the entire premise of ‘age of consent laws’ is based on an ideological fantasy: i.e. that children are non-sexual beings until midnight on their 18th (or whichever arbitrarily selected) birthday. This supposition not only flies in the face of everything we know about human development, evolution, the sexual practices of human beings (probably other primates as well), but also denies the real personal experience of the overwhelming majority of people.

Since the salient characteristic of homosapiens is our variability and diversity, it’s safe to say that we develop at a wide range of different rates… some are raring and ready to go at it at 12, others are still not psychologically prepared at 20. To cover consensual and mutually desired sexual activities between people of different ages with the same term (“rape”) that we use to identify horrifying acts of physical violence and psychological abuse is simply a reflection of a morbid, simultaneously sex-hating and sex-fixated culture.

From the other side, pedophilia is a psychological condition which in my view has no positive or negative significance in itself. Only when this inclination is acted upon in ways that inflict genuine harm, i.e. imposing sexual attentions or acts on others against their will, does it involve a criminal aspect.

Did you read the part that said Qualuudes and alcohol? I remember this case, I live in California. It was not as benign as you are trying to portray it. Polanski plead guilty to rape. As someone who WAS assaulted in that time period, it was MUCH more difficult to bring a charge of rape and get the police to listen to you without portraying the victim as ‘asking for it’ in the 1970s than it is NOW.

Balak, you question how it is that a 13-year old girl cannot give informed consent. The reason is that girls of that age are still very much in thrall to adults. They have not yet formed full notions of identity and individuality. We have a good example of this in the earlier sensational case of the man who kidnapped an 11-year old girl and kept her as his sex slave, raping her regularly and fathering two children by her. This girl bonded with her rapist because at age 11 she did not yet have a distinct ego and so was emotional putty in the hands of her rapist.

But we need not speculate. I offer here an article from 2005, BEFORE the current brouhaha, in which the victim speaks candidly as an adult about the case. It’s here:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/celebs/news/2005/07/25/exclusive-polanski-raped-me-when-i-was-13-he-is-a-creep-115875-15775812/

And here are some illustrative quotes from the victim:

“He took sex from me and my innocence. I don’t think it occurred to him that someone wouldn’t want sex with him.”

“My girlfriend was supposed to come along as my chaperone but at the last minute Polanski said it would be better if she didn’t come. She went home and Mom didn’t realise I was on the shoot alone.”

“I realised I had put myself in a bad situation. I got scared and said I had asthma and couldn’t breathe. I said I had to get out of the tub. As quick as I could get out of that Jacuzzi I got out. He was older and I didn’t think it right we should be hanging out in the tub.”

“He started kissing me, I protested but then just submitted. I’d been drinking and was too frightened to push him off - he was a famous guy, he was intimidating. We were alone and it was pitch-black. I was scared. I knew what he was gonna do - and I didn’t want him to do it.

“All I could think was let’s get through this and I can get home. I just froze up.” Polanski had intercourse with Samantha, performed oral sex and sodomised her. He then drove her home saying: “Don’t tell your mum or your boyfriend, this is our little secret.”

Now, do you still claim that Polanski did no harm to this girl?

I would gather that people vocal about lowering age of consent laws to childhood level are adults who want to be involved in such a disgusting arrangement. It makes me sick to even think why you want to lower age of consent to childhood.

Call me a bleeding heart liberal if you want, but sex with children is evil and pedophiles should face the justice system and pay their dues.

Balak,
Your rhetoric is excessively shrill and inflammatory, and derogatory references to other members like “liberal bedwetting hysterics,” are unacceptable. You are perilously close to behavior classifiable as “trolling” under the rules of the forum, and you need to tone down your language.

CC: Now, do you still claim that Polanski did no harm to this girl?

Spare the manipulations CC, I said nothing about what happened in this particular case, because I have no knowledge of the particulars.

None of the particular testimony addresses the principles outlined above. Assuming the events took place exactly as Gailey describes them, Polanski acted badly and selfishly. Some remorse on his part may have motivated whatever damages he paid to Gailey. In any case he secured her forgiveness.

The advocates of moral panic over this issue still refuse to address any of the principled questions, nor explain what justifies a 30 year international campaign by U.S. authorities to dog Polanski’s every step as if he were the reincarnation of Josef Mengele…

Oh. Sorry, my bad! It was the U.S. authorities that actually sheltered and protected the Nazi war criminals who murdered Polanski’s mother in Auschwitz.

Jules - 29 September 2009 07:05 PM

I would gather that people vocal about lowering age of consent laws to childhood level are adults who want to be involved in such a disgusting arrangement.

This is in my opinion by far the most inflammatory and unacceptable language in this thread.

I await the moderator’s intervention and the writer’s apology.

Balak, why do I get the feeling you have been hurt by the Roman/Catholic Church?

There is no other reason for an adult to want age of sexual consent laws lowered to childhood age. I stand by my comment and continue to be disgusted and disturbed by your ideas of childhood sex being OK. I have calmly and clearly expressed my concern without being inflammatory.

Balak - 29 September 2009 07:40 PM

Jules - 29 September 2009 07:05 PM

I would gather that people vocal about lowering age of consent laws to childhood level are adults who want to be involved in such a disgusting arrangement.

This is in my opinion by far the most inflammatory and unacceptable language in this thread.

I await the moderator’s intervention and the writer’s apology.

Do you have children? A thirteen year old girl in a consensual sexual relationship with another 13 year old boy is in a different position from a 13 year old girl having drugs and alcohol plied upon her in order to coerce her. Even were there no drugs or alcohol involved, there is a huge power differential and level of sophistication between the two. It is very EASY to coerce a 13 year old into doing something they do not want to do. Think of all of the incredibly stupid things a 13 year old does on their own. It is reprehensible for a ‘responsible’ adult to take advantage of this.
  As the comment was not specifically directed towards you, I think you will be waiting a loooong time for that apology. One would wonder though, exactly what IS your motivation? If he were a priest WOULD you feel the same way??? Does this mean that if you can hide from the law until X number of years has passed, you’re entitled to a ‘get out of jail free’ card? Have you, or a close family member of yours ever been sexually assaulted, at any age? Have you ever had to CARE for a child victim of sexual assault? I can say yes to both, and in dismissing the seriousness of the charges, you are belittling and denigrating women.

As for the comparison with Nazis, that is a straw man.

Asanta I directed a comment to him after that line expressing my sick feeling and concern for his motive in wanting to lower age of consent to childhood age. He may be referring to that. However my concern is genuine not inflammatory, and as a mother it brings tears to my eyes to hear an adult say children should be free to have sex with adults. It sounds like Pedophiles or Mormon fundamentalists - the only other people I have ever heard advocate child consent ages.

Jules - 29 September 2009 08:04 PM

Asanta I directed a comment to him after that line expressing my sick feeling and concern for his motive in wanting to lower age of consent to childhood age. He may be referring to that. However my concern is genuine not inflammatory, and as a mother it brings tears to my eyes to hear an adult say children should be free to have sex with adults. It sounds like Pedophiles or Mormon fundamentalists - the only other people I have ever heard advocate child consent ages.

Or a person who has been abused themselves.  While not all, but some who are abused as children, grow up to abuse other children as adults.

Yes Mriana, it is so very sad what abuse can do to a child’s young mind. I believe some never fully recover. They must live with the pain their entire life.