K_Pre - 01 October 2009 04:27 PM
If I was here to name call and so on I’d participate in that exchange. I’d hope the CENTER FOR INQUIRY was just that and not the Church Of Evolution.
First off, you have been name calling ever since people started disagreeing with your idea. Second, the church of evolution, C’MON, you can think of a better name than that!
Your entire run down of the concept of evolution doesn’t not explain anything. No where in there did you state or point out any MATHEMATICAL progression. NOT ONE. The missing link for you may be an ape humanoid. The missing link that makes absolute sense to me is progression from mud houses to pyramids and there is NONE. FACT: The first findings of modern agriculture are on mountain peaks, why would man start agriculture on a mountain top? because there was a flood down below. So I guess meteors can kill dinosaurs but a flood NOOO that’s too way out there. That could never happen. The polar ice caps have NEVER melted in earth’s history. In fact they aren’t even melting right now. Ignore the fact that the ocean level is raising that’s just hoeey.
My “entire run down” was in response to your equivocation that “evolution does not account for human intelligence”. I successfully demonstrated my point, but you have moved the bar, as is typical for the dogmatic. NOW, you would like evolution to specifically explain math. I don’t think anyone has asked so much of evolution. However, your requirement betrays your ignorance in regards to math and what you claim to know about Sumerians. I suggest you visit this site ( http://www-history.mcs.st-and.ac.uk/HistTopics/History_overview.html ). The Babylonians began our journey in math, but they were not the final word. Math itself evolved as cultures evolved. The Greeks really changed the face of math and formed what we know as math today. Again, math itself is an evolution. Babylonians, Greeks, Indians, Islamic countries, many civilizations sculpted the math we use. It didn’t just poof, appear in the hands of the Sumerians.
Again, you shift your focus on your next sentence with “the missing link that makes absolute sense to me is progression from mud houses to pyramids”. I think you should research that as well. The materials used to build a Mesopotamian house were the same as those used today: mud brick, mud plaster and wooden doors, which were all naturally available around the city,[32] although wood could not be naturally made very well during the particular time period described. Most houses had a square center room with other rooms attached to it, but a great variation in the size and materials used to build the houses suggest they were built by the inhabitants themselves [4]. The smallest rooms may not have coincided with the poorest people; in fact it could be that the poorest people built houses out of perishable materials such as reeds on the outside of the city, but there is very little direct evidence for this.[33] (Wikipedia)
There is no evidence pyramids were ever used as houses. I don’t even know why you said that. Ziggurats were built by the Sumerians, Babylonians, Elamites and Assyrians as monuments to local religions. The earliest examples of the ziggurat were raised platforms that date from the Ubaid period[34] during the fourth millennium BC, and the latest date from the 6th century BC. (Wikipedia)
Know lets talk about your FACT about agriculture. They pinpoint the Karacadag Mountains, in southeast Turkey at the upper fringes of the Fertile Crescent, as the site where einkorn wheat was first domesticated from a wild species around 11,000 years ago. ( http://www.spelt.com/origins.html ) Agriculture began well before your precious Sumerian civilization. Sumerians may have perfected agriculture, but they didn’t start it. Secondly, the fact that the agricultural sites were in the mountains could be explained by any number of reasons, mostly involving why the tribe was there in the first place, i.e. mountain animal populations, defense, environmental stability (like wind control). Irregardless, it certainly wasn’t because of a world wide flood. Here is my proof: The Bering land bridge was exposed between 18,000 and 10.200 years ago by lowered sea levels. (pg. 41 Smithsonian Earth). The ice age had ended and the icebergs were retreating during this time period.
You are simply delusional if you are going to equate my assertion that there is no proof of a worldwide flood with denying global warming. Certainly, there has been flooding in certain areas, NOT THE WHOLE WORLD. Certainly, there has been higher sea levels and isolation due to migrating ice sheets and temperature changes, NOT DURING THE TIME OF AGRICULTURAL BIRTH.
You don’t have the chops to hang in this fight. I’ve read, and studied, and continue to do so. I’m always going to be farther ahead if you don’t start doing some actual research and stop spewing your 12th planet nonsense.
I understand you are like the christians, the muslims and the jews you believe wholely in something and you don’t want to let go even when the OBVIOUS is presented to you. The obvious here is MATH, not when we started eating plants or when we started eating meat. This is what separate us from them, MATH. It’s when we got the concept of math so advanced that we can map the stars without a telescope AND within thousands of years of walking up right.
Of the two of us, I’m the only one presenting evidence. You are making wild claims with nothing to back it up. Try and refute me with actual proof. You can’t! I think it is unfortunate that you can read this thread and not see that you are the one who is “wholely in something and you don’t want to let go even when the OBVIOUS is presented to you.” It ain’t just me. I’ve got tons of scholars backing me up. What do you have? I’m still waiting!
It’s right in front of your face, clear as day. MATH IS NOT LEARNED AS A PROGRESS OF EVOLUTION. MATH IS TAUGHT. If we stopped teaching each other math right now, we would go right back into the dark ages. Evolution does kick in from what we already know and we just get smarter from here on out. NO we get dumber. This is a FACT. So if math is taught then that means someone TAUGHT US MATH. PERIOD.
Try again! Math is observation. Learn about the math in nature. Your inability to understand and fathom an intellect that can observe and apply observations just shows your limitation, not the limitation of people in the past.
FOR THE LAST TIME, I understand that math, astronomy, evolution are all difficult concepts for you, but that doesn’t make them crazy alien inventions. Read some more and come back when you’ve learned! 
I’m not wasting my time arguing with someone who gets ALL of their facts from Google, and YouTube! He is obviously unable to discern a credible source from an incredible source!! It doesn’t appear that our visitor knows how to do elementary research.
