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The Bible as Myth and History
Posted: 10 December 2009 10:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 106 ]
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Ecrasez l’infame! - 10 December 2009 10:25 AM

Yu can gets the illisratud books with tapes, tu.  Just thinc - no werk at all, just watch end lissed.  Grete for morons whu drive trucs and plai with stele and whu hav no intillexual backgrund or educashun. 

It am wundaful to see thees dummies triing so hard to give inpoot when thir educashun is non-existont - at leest they trie even tho the resooly is mostlee rubbishsh but I do admyre them for trying so hard - it must teke many hours of wirk too get the litle rubish that they do getn on the sistim! Thise blu-collr werkers are quite nise peeple when you get down to chat with them serously - not mush content or factss, but lotsa cruud jocks Joches and bad langwage jist crude stff.

Ecrazez, this sort of attack is uncalled for. Let’s try to raise the level of discourse and deal with arguments rather than stoop to base denigration.

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Posted: 10 December 2009 12:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 107 ]
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dougsmith - 10 December 2009 10:28 AM
Ecrasez l’infame! - 10 December 2009 10:25 AM

Yu can gets the illisratud books with tapes, tu.  Just thinc - no werk at all, just watch end lissed.  Grete for morons whu drive trucs and plai with stele and whu hav no intillexual backgrund or educashun. 

It am wundaful to see thees dummies triing so hard to give inpoot when thir educashun is non-existont - at leest they trie even tho the resooly is mostlee rubbishsh but I do admyre them for trying so hard - it must teke many hours of wirk too get the litle rubish that they do getn on the sistim! Thise blu-collr werkers are quite nise peeple when you get down to chat with them serously - not mush content or factss, but lotsa cruud jocks Joches and bad langwage jist crude stff.

Ecrazez, this sort of attack is uncalled for. Let’s try to raise the level of discourse and deal with arguments rather than stoop to base denigration.

This is what is called Ichor. Bad cards to play. You are really showing a bad hand here.

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Posted: 10 December 2009 04:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 108 ]
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Hey, you slipped a new word in on me, Ichor.  Thanks, and I’ll assume yours is the modern definition.  The one in the ancient dictionary by my computer is: A thin, acrid, watery discharge from wound or sore.  I can see how it’s come to mean bad cards to play.

Occam

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Posted: 10 December 2009 06:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 109 ]
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ththththththththththththththththththththththththt….........

Oi dot wos a gud wun.

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Posted: 10 December 2009 07:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 110 ]
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Occam - 10 December 2009 04:24 PM

Hey, you slipped a new word in on me, Ichor.  Thanks, and I’ll assume yours is the modern definition.  The one in the ancient dictionary by my computer is: A thin, acrid, watery discharge from wound or sore.  I can see how it’s come to mean bad cards to play.

Occam

No no! LOL  Occam, I was saying-“Bad Cards to play.” The definition you put up for “ichor” is exactly how I meant it. Originally taken from myth I believe. Ichor is the resulting puss and fluids that would drain from the wounds of supernatural beings when wounded.
It has since come to mean any kind of nasty puss, or discharge.
I have seen it used as a literary term denoting acrid, spiteful, discharges emanating from a mean-spirited, bitter person. Usually a lowly, pitiful character who was put in their place, and then has a spiteful axe to grind.

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Posted: 11 December 2009 04:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 111 ]
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Ecrasez l’infame! - 09 December 2009 08:32 PM

“it human well-being that counts”, are it?

Geez guys is yu triing tu sai sumthng or wat? 
Rool nummer wun: lern tu spel fust, then lurn grammr, and then rite at yur harts content!
Utherwize no wun will lissen becus yu sownd laik mormons, or is it mumuns, ow buggir it, is it morons?
This is a qwote frum a teecha of myne in ordinery grayde skule edukayshun!

garythehuman, wat is yu triing to sai?  I laik sum of yur musicans, but uthers suk.  And yur bibble coments - esp. thi last wun - wat is you babling abowt - triing tu be a philosoof, no, folosophyperson, no a filosofyman - wut bs (scews mee)! 

Did yu and Vyasma meet at the bluus club?  It sownded lyke gud fun?  And did you howld hends and tak aboot truks and steal al nait?
Wat fun! Gee - mutch bettr then Filosofee, no?

Ecrasez, 
I thought you were into Greek philosophy,  perhaps you don’t know (or more likely don’t care) that Plato’s writings were called “The Dialogs,”.  You have not made one serious statement in this discussion.  What little input you have attempted has totally ignored or purposely misconstrued what is being said. 

Wih all due respect for whatever education you think you have

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Posted: 11 December 2009 04:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 112 ]
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crazez,

it human well-being that counts”, are it?

Yes, its human well-being that counts.

Steelworkers and truck drivers know this even if some intellectuals don’t.  Perhaps you do not have this knowledge as no ancient Greek slave-holder wrote this down for you.

[ Edited: 11 December 2009 04:38 PM by garythehuman ]
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Posted: 11 December 2009 07:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 113 ]
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Ecrasez l’infame! - 10 December 2009 06:35 PM

ththththththththththththththththththththththththt….........

Oi dot wos a gud wun.

Ecrasez, posting simply to be nasty is against the rules. Continued rule violations may result in banning.

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Posted: 13 December 2009 10:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 114 ]
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“When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity.  When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion.”
- Robert M. Pirsig, “Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.”

...and then….

“God is the immemorial refuge of the incompetent, the helpless, the miserable.  They find not only sanctuary in His arms, but also a kind of superiority, soothing to their macerated egos; He will set them above their betters.” - H.L. Menchen

...and then….

“There is so much in the Bible against which every instinct of my being rebels, so much so that I regret the necessity which has compelled me to read it through from beginning to end.  I do not thinks that the knowledge I have gained of its history and sources compensates me for the unpleasant details it has forced upon my attention.” - Helen Keller

These quotes are taken from: “The God Virus: How Religion Infects Our Lives and Culture”, by Darrel W. Ray.

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Posted: 14 December 2009 04:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 115 ]
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Ecrasez l’infame! - 13 December 2009 10:55 PM

“There is so much in the Bible against which every instinct of my being rebels, so much so that I regret the necessity which has compelled me to read it through from beginning to end.  I do not thinks that the knowledge I have gained of its history and sources compensates me for the unpleasant details it has forced upon my attention.” - Helen Keller

These quotes are taken from: “The God Virus: How Religion Infects Our Lives and Culture”, by Darrel W. Ray.

 

http://www.positiveatheism.org/mail/eml8267.htm

I wanted like to get this quote verified—- it looks like it is done in the attached email thread.

But was she an atheist?

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Posted: 15 December 2009 08:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 116 ]
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“I wanted like to get this quote verified—- it looks like it is done in the attached email thread.”

“I wanted LIKE…” how old are you?  Why can’t you speak English?

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Posted: 15 December 2009 09:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 117 ]
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“........intellectual religious conversation.”

What?  Of course you are joking?  There is no such thing as an “intellectual religious conversation.”  Here are the ways others who are far more intellectual than I am have said it (although I added my own thought about it at the end!):

Jefferson’s response to questions about “his” university cover this issue quite well when he refused to allow a department of theology at the University of Virginia because he did not regard it as an academic subject.

“I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature.  They are all alike founded on fables and mythology.”  Thomas Jefferson, 3rd U.S. President

“The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason.”  Benjamin Franklin

“What have been Christianity’s fruits?  More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.”  James Madison, 4th U.S. President

“So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the gospels in praise of intelligence.”  Bertrand Russell

“You can’t convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it’s based on a deep-seated need to believe.”  Carl Sagan

“Faith is often the boast of the man who is too lazy to investigate.”  F.M. Knowles

“I have never seen the slightest scientific proof of the religious ideas of heaven and hell, of future life for individuals, or of a personal God.  So far as religion of the day is concerned, it is a damned fake .... Religion is all bunk.”  Thomas Edison

“Faith may be defined briefly as an illogical belief in the occurrence of the improbable.  A man full of faith is simply one who has lost (or never had) the capacity for clear and realistic thought.  He is not a mere ass; he is actually ill.”  H.L. Menchen

“Not one man in ten thousand has the goodness of heart or strength of mind to be an atheist.” Samuel Taylor Coleridge

“To discuss Christianity with a Christian is to support his/her path of ignorance and stupidity because, by recognizing his/her belief and faith as worthy of discussion is to recognize their existence as things worthy of your time and understanding.”  Chris Morton

George is a nice guy and tries very hard to help everyone else on these boards to be nice.  As far as I’m concerned I’ve never heard of a worthwhile discussion with a Christian about Christianity.  And those discussions we’ve had on this board have always degenerated into typical empty Christian posturing.  Ciceronianus says he thinks that Christianity has produced some great thinkers and quotes Aquinas (who encouraged authorities to execute non-Christians and those who refused to become Christians - great thinking!) and Augustine (who had a very bad case of verbal diarrhea but who wrote one thing that is worthwhile - his treatise on truth - which the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church immediately ignored, and have done so ever since).  So, Johnny, your title is contradictory, your initial comments are drivel, and your expectations are from misinformation; so stick to your Christian ilk - a group of untruthful, ignorant, uneducated and stupid people.

Of course, Jesus never existed (thus the entire assumption behind Christianity is false). 

Here is some reading for you, then you may come back to discuss what you have read if you like (I try to get other members of this board to read, too, but most of them regard reading as an archaic for of self amusement and choose not to do it, too:  (The easiest to read are marked with asterisks for your help).

Reading List:

1.  *Dan Baker (1992) “Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist,” FFRF, Madison, WI.
2.  *Earl Doherty (1999) “The Jesus Puzzle. Did Christianity Begin with a Mythical Christ? : Challenging the Existence of an Historical Jesus,” Canadian Humanist Press, Toronto.
3.  *James G. Dwyer (1998) “Religious Schools V. Children’s Rights,” Cornell University Press, Ithaca, NY.
4.  *Sam Harris (2006) “Letter To A Christian Nation,” Afred E. Knopf, New York.
5.  Michael Martin (1993) “The Case Against Christianity,” Temple University Press.
6.  *Darrel W. Ray (2009) “The God Virus: How Religion Infects Our Lives and Culture,” IPC Press, Bonner Springs, Kansas.
7.  Jason Berry & Gerald Renner (2004) “Vows of Silence: The Abuse of Power in the Papacy of John Paul II,” Simon & Schuster, NY.
8.  Bertrand Russell (1957) “Why I Am Not A Christian and other essays on religion and related subjects”, Touchstone Books, London.
9.  *Charles Templeton (1996) “Farewell To God: My Reasons For Rejecting the Christian Faith,” McClelland & Stewart, Toronto.
10. Garry Wills, (2000) “Papal Sin: Structure of Deceit,” Doubleday, New York.  (I quote this one because Gary Wills is a Catholic and has also written the Biography of Augustine.)

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Posted: 31 December 2009 03:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 118 ]
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Ecrasez L’imfame.

So you are finally going to present your thinking as a rational human.

If you would read back through my posts you would see that I am not a religious person of any creed.  The point that I have been attempting to raise is that throughout the history of civilization religion has played a key role in the evolution of these societies.  Prior to the rise of the nation-state in the 1500-1600’s (itself the result of the European religious wars) religion and the government were one and the same.

I hold the Bible as one of the most important collections of works in Western Civilization.  The study of its history provides tremendous insights into the development of our civilization.  The religious may regard it as a “divinely inspired,” as that suits their purpose.  I regard it and its history as reflecting possibly the most important political developments of the last 2,500 years.  The successes and failures of the various social movements based around this compilation is critical to our understanding of the world today whether or not we have any belief in non-existent supernatural forces.
If we abandon this essential study and/or only look at the negatives that Xtian religion has been used for, IMO we are throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

As far as whether or not Jesus physically existed, I don’t believe its all that important.  The important fact is people’s belief in the Jesus myth and what they have and are using this myth for.  (At the Jesus Project meeting in Dec. 2008 (which I attended) A. J. Droge gave a presentation on   the mythical Ned Lud[d] comparing the use of the name Ned Ludd by the Luddites to Jesus by Christians, it is printed in the last issue of Caesar, put out by CFI, if you are interested.)

I took a quick look a quick look at your recommended reading; I have read Sam Harris, this and several other of the books you are recommending belong to what I call the “village atheist” genre; since I have been an atheist since high school I very seldom bother with these any longer.  Others such as Berry and Renner; and that particular Wills work documents the evils of particular people using religion for their own ends are important exposés
but not particularly useful for my studies.

What surprised me was you made no mention of Daniel Dennett’s “Breaking the Spell.”  This book in nearly a bible to me.  LOL

[ Edited: 31 December 2009 03:28 PM by garythehuman ]
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Posted: 31 December 2009 03:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 119 ]
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Ecrasez l’infame! - 10 December 2009 10:25 AM

Yu can gets the illisratud books with tapes, tu.  Just thinc - no werk at all, just watch end lissed.  Grete for morons whu drive trucs and plai with stele and whu hav no intillexual backgrund or educashun. 

Actually, I have gotten quite a bit over the years from The Teaching Company, a bit on the expensive side though.

I forgot to include in my last post an apology for my lousy typing (and I know my spelling is not much better). grin

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Posted: 01 January 2010 09:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 120 ]
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I must confess, I am not educated in philosophy or religion, my degree is in Business Administration.

A few years ago, I read “Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance”, it took me a long time to read and once I had finished, I wondered “What the hell was that a about?”.  I had to Google information about the author Robert M. Pirsig and his book (so much to learn - such as metaphysics).

This summer I went to see ‘Body Worlds’ and purchased some postcards that had quotes from famous Theorist and Philosophers which piqued my curiosity to learn more about philosophy and religion, which is one of the reasons why I have been drawn to CFI’s forums.

Here is some reading for you, then you may come back to discuss what you have read if you like (I try to get other members of this board to read, too, but most of them regard reading as an archaic for of self amusement and choose not to do it, too:  (The easiest to read are marked with asterisks for your help).

Thank you Ecrasez l’infame!, for the reading list and taking the time to note the easiest to read, I will start there red face  Then I might be ready to read Pirsig’s sequel ‘Lila’?

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