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The Bible as Myth and History
Posted: 04 December 2009 08:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 91 ]
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Ecrasez l’infame! - 03 December 2009 07:33 PM

I’ll say again - this thread has run its course and is no longer interesting, oh you dribbling faithful! 

Then, by all means, stop reading it, and most of all, stop contributing to it.  Please.

As for the song, when I crave sophomoric lyrics, I’ll read those of Mojo Nixon.  At least he is amusing, now and then.

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Posted: 04 December 2009 03:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 92 ]
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fotobits - 03 December 2009 07:06 PM

Best songwriters of all time:
Lennon/McCartney
Guy Clark
Townes Van Zandt
Bob Dylan
Dan Hicks
Paul Simon
Bruce Robison
Buck Owens
Delbert McClinton
several dozen tied at #10

This list is subject to change at my whim, and is heavily influenced by moods, alcohol, weather, sleep deprivation and what I have listened to lately.

Can we add Joni Mitchell to this list please. Her work is brilliant as lyricist, musician, and painter

[ Edited: 04 December 2009 03:39 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 04 December 2009 05:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 93 ]
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Write4U-

Can we add Joni Mitchell to this list please. Her work is brilliant as lyricist, musician, and painter

“The Wind is in from Africa….”

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Posted: 04 December 2009 05:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 94 ]
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VYAZMA - 04 December 2009 05:04 PM

Write4U-

Can we add Joni Mitchell to this list please. Her work is brilliant as lyricist, musician, and painter

“The Wind is in from Africa….”

Let’s not forget Warren Zevon.

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Posted: 08 December 2009 03:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 95 ]
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Vyazma:

What do you want an elite club of free-thinkers taken from 0.000025% of society? That’s not progressive

You may find this quore interesting.

“There exists an international subculture composed of people with Western-type higher education, espically in the humanities and social sciences, that is indeed secularized.  This subculture is the principle “carrier” of progressive, Enlightened beleifs and values.  While its members are relatively thin on the ground, they are very influential, as they control the istitutions that provide the “offical” definitions of reality, notably the educational system, the media of mass cpommunications, and the higher reaches of the legal system.  They are remarkably similar all over the world today, as they have been for a long time.”  Peter Berger ed. The Desecularization of the World.  Pg. 10

It seems obvious that some of the people here want to keep it this way and give no creedence at all to those who have gained their education outside of the “offical” educational system.

What they don’t realize is “Rationality is not the gold standard against which all other forms or thought are to be judged.  Adaptation is the gold standard against which rationaliry must be judged.  David Sloan Wilson.

One of the Dennettionian blindspots that they seem to have is that they think that mere statements of their “rational” thought , thier limiting of themselves to lecture formats, and long winded books or specialsit publications is enough to influence broader society.  Their often excessive individualism works against them.  They do not realize that they have t base thier arguements in current tradition for them to have effect.  And as a group who mostly has achieved at least basic economic security (if not protection from all of lifes hazards) for themselves do not see the need for persons who have not done so to rely and consider important the building of relationships and organizations in society to cushion the blows of life.

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Posted: 08 December 2009 03:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 96 ]
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Lennon/McCartney
Guy Clark
Townes Van Zandt
Bob Dylan
Dan Hicks
Paul Simon
Bruce Robison
Buck Owens
Delbert McClinton
several dozen tied at #10

This list is subject to change at my whim, and is heavily influenced by moods, alcohol, weather, sleep deprivation and what I have listened to lately.

Can we add Joni Mitchell to this list please. Her work is brilliant as lyricist, musician, and painter


A few more -  Wille Dixon the great Chicago Blues writer
Stephen Foster
Cole Porter
And mostly “unkown” who wrote “The House of the Rising Sun” among many others

Like your signatue statement

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Posted: 08 December 2009 06:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 97 ]
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Vyazma:

You are from Buffalo.

If you like Blues, the Blues society is meeting Thurs. @ Bobby McGees on Maple @ Sweet Home Rd.  I belive Matt Nickson is playing.  It stars @ 8:00.

Perhaps I will meet you there.

[ Edited: 08 December 2009 06:40 PM by garythehuman ]
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Posted: 08 December 2009 07:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 98 ]
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GTH-

“There exists an international subculture composed of people with Western-type higher education, espically in the humanities and social sciences, that is indeed secularized.  This subculture is the principle “carrier” of progressive, Enlightened beleifs and values.  While its members are relatively thin on the ground, they are very influential, as they control the istitutions that provide the “offical” definitions of reality, notably the educational system, the media of mass cpommunications, and the higher reaches of the legal system.  They are remarkably similar all over the world today, as they have been for a long time.”  Peter Berger ed. The Desecularization of the World.  Pg. 10

It seems obvious that some of the people here want to keep it this way and give no creedence at all to those who have gained their education outside of the “offical” educational system.

What they don’t realize is “Rationality is not the gold standard against which all other forms or thought are to be judged.  Adaptation is the gold standard against which rationaliry must be judged.  David Sloan Wilson.

One of the Dennettionian blindspots that they seem to have is that they think that mere statements of their “rational” thought , thier limiting of themselves to lecture formats, and long winded books or specialsit publications is enough to influence broader society.  Their often excessive individualism works against them.  They do not realize that they have t base thier arguements in current tradition for them to have effect.  And as a group who mostly has achieved at least basic economic security (if not protection from all of lifes hazards) for themselves do not see the need for persons who have not done so to rely and consider important the building of relationships and organizations in society to cushion the blows of life.

Oh yeah buddy! I often wonder about this sector of society. But then you have to realize that they are all competing amongst themselves too. Competing for notoriety, money, and their specific interests that they wish to see instituted. Add to that their competing against wholly ideologically opposed sectors with the same insular, gentrified, bookish professionalism.
These quotes you give above are dead-on. As far as Progressive Movements/Thinking is concerned.
It really starts to make one wonder if Progressive Thinking isn’t just Science/Politics/Academia foreseeing the “natural progression” of society, and steering the ship towards that-as opposed to actually thinking up new, good ideas and campaigning for them.
I think that is partly what Wilson is conveying in that quote. Yes Adaptation trumps rationality every time, always has.
And it seems like progressivism is just being on the cutting edge of adaptation.
Again as opposed to people coming up with real solutions and instituting them the best they can. Of course as George Carlin says: “This is it folks! This is the best we can do.” He’s right. There’s no doubt about it.

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Posted: 08 December 2009 08:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 99 ]
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Yes, we can add Joni Mitchell, Willie Dixon, Cole Porter, Stephen Foster…

I’d also add Hank Williams, John Hiatt, John Stewart, Gram Parsons…

The list goes on forever (with apologies to Robert Earl Keene).

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Posted: 08 December 2009 09:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 100 ]
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I skimmed through this thread because it started sort of interesting, but then the words sort of avalanched over themselves, overwhelming me and leaving me gasping geez louiz so much bla bla…

... then I started thinking what this conversation needs is a good dose of the new definite bible study guide, well at least for the book of Genesis…

That being:
The Book of Genesis Illustrated 
It contains all 50 chapters of Genesis and comes with a warning on its cover: “Adult Supervision Recommended for Minors.”

R.Crumb’s latest illustrated comic ~ an accurate page by page depiction of the Book of Genesis.

quoting NPR:
The warning is not just because of the relentless sex that peppers the story, but also, as Crumb explained at a press conference in Paris, because of the “violence” and “nastiness” of the story:

“[It’s about] ruling elites, victimizing people in sadistic ways, which is human beings at their nastiest. They have power over others, and they derive pleasure from inflecting pain on other humans. That’s about as nasty as people get,” he said.

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Posted: 09 December 2009 04:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 101 ]
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CC;

I checked out the comic.  Interesting., but I don’t know if I’ll add it to my collection I am still trying to get Crankshaft. and have a large number of Bibles (on disk forutnately)  LOL

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Posted: 09 December 2009 05:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 102 ]
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VYAZMA:

.I am a secular humanist.  I don’t believe that over the long term one can any longer base societies myths on supernatural causes, as thse causesy obviously do not exist.  What concerns me is most is that the entire secular movement is so preoccupied with disproving the religious myths and insulting many good people for still using the tools they have inherited that they are missing the fact that to overcome these myths new myths, not based upon the supernatural, but based upon human experience as what is necessary to maintain and advance civilization..  I think we have a start on this in the Bill of Rights and the assertion that all humans are created equal.

I think we need to create strong organizations to allow people who are not in the elite to grow, become experienced and have influence on wider society, this not elections is the essence of democracy..

As David Martin points out “What we have initially as a consequence of the Evangelical upsurge is the creation of an autonomous social space within which many people may participate in the creation of a different kind of sub-society.  In this sub-society those that count for little or nothing in the wider world find themselves as persons able to display initiative and to be of consequence.” AI am a secular humanist.  I don’t believe that over the long term one can any longer base societies myths on supernatural causes, as thse causesy obviously do not exist.  What concerns me is most is that the entire secular movement is so preoccupied with disproving the religious myths and insulting many good people for still using the tools they have inherited that they are missing the fact that to overcome these myths new myths, not based upon the supernatural, but based upon human experience as what is necessary to maintain and advance civilization..  I think we have a start on this in the Bill of Rights and the assertion that all humans are created equal.
  I think we need to create strong organizations to allow people who are not in the elite to grow, become experienced and have influence on wider society, this not elections is the essence of democracy..

As David Martin points out “What we have initially as a consequence of the Evangelical upsurge is the creation of an autonomous social space within which many people may participate in the creation of a different kind of sub-society.  In this sub-society those that count for little or nothing in the wider world find themselves as persons able to display initiative and to be of consequence.”  As well as gaining social, speaking and organizational skills, experience and confidence. We need to establish Secular Humanist organizations to fill this need.

The reason I feel the Bible is important, even to secularists is that a study of it, in context, demonstrates what strong cultural traditions can be and have been used for.

My aim through out life has not been to destroy religion,  It has been to try to achieve social and economic justice, promote the well-being and provide hope & forgiveness, when called, for to as many humans as possible.  I am not a prominent person by any extent of the imagination, but I am still a human and I believe this is the responsibility of all ethical humans, religious or not.  And there is a lot we secularists can learn from the religious in this area.

Theology/philosophy be damned, it human well-being that counts.

well as gaining social, speaking and organizational skills, experience and confidence. We need to establish Secular Humanist organizations to fill this need.

The reason I feel the Bible is important, even to secularists is that a study of it, in context, demonstrates what strong cultural traditions can be and have been used for.

My aim through out life has not been to destroy religion,  It has been to try to achieve social and economic justice, promote the well-being and provide hope & forgiveness, when called, for to as many humans as possible.  I am not a prominent person by any extent of the imagination, but I am still a human and I believe this is the responsibility of all ethical humans, religious or not.  And there is a lot we secularists can learn from the religious in this area.

Theology/philosophy be damned, it human well-being that counts.

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Posted: 09 December 2009 08:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 103 ]
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“it human well-being that counts”, are it?

Geez guys is yu triing tu sai sumthng or wat? 
Rool nummer wun: lern tu spel fust, then lurn grammr, and then rite at yur harts content!
Utherwize no wun will lissen becus yu sownd laik mormons, or is it mumuns, ow buggir it, is it morons?
This is a qwote frum a teecha of myne in ordinery grayde skule edukayshun!

garythehuman, wat is yu triing to sai?  I laik sum of yur musicans, but uthers suk.  And yur bibble coments - esp. thi last wun - wat is you babling abowt - triing tu be a philosoof, no, folosophyperson, no a filosofyman - wut bs (scews mee)! 

Did yu and Vyasma meet at the bluus club?  It sownded lyke gud fun?  And did you howld hends and tak aboot truks and steal al nait?
Wat fun! Gee - mutch bettr then Filosofee, no?

[ Edited: 09 December 2009 08:42 PM by Fat Man ]
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Posted: 09 December 2009 10:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 104 ]
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that’s why the illustrated version comes in handy
                             
                                                sometimes

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Posted: 10 December 2009 10:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 105 ]
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Yu can gets the illisratud books with tapes, tu.  Just thinc - no werk at all, just watch end lissed.  Grete for morons whu drive trucs and plai with stele and whu hav no intillexual backgrund or educashun. 

It am wundaful to see thees dummies triing so hard to give inpoot when thir educashun is non-existont - at leest they trie even tho the resooly is mostlee rubbishsh but I do admyre them for trying so hard - it must teke many hours of wirk too get the litle rubish that they do getn on the sistim! Thise blu-collr werkers are quite nise peeple when you get down to chat with them serously - not mush content or factss, but lotsa cruud jocks Joches and bad langwage jist crude stff.

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