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does anybody believe in ghosts?
Posted: 17 December 2010 04:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 136 ]
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I was thinking about that one illusion that happened at a gas station once, but what you mention I see coming though a window when the sun shines through it quite often.  I figured out it was dust particles a long time ago.

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Posted: 17 December 2010 10:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 137 ]
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I understand the dust particles, but these were actually moving up and down, and almost bouncing, so they did not appear to be ghost particles.

For the person who mentioned they could not afford a camera with infa-red ability, I would suggest checking out a Ghost hunting group. There are serious ones out there. Then go on a ghost hunt with them, and make a decision for yourself based on what you experience. Many of the members already have equipment, so you would not need anything.

And as I understand, what I saw that night is not an uncommon thing to see. Then you can decide if dust could move like that.

Let me know if you do decide to try that, I would be interested in hearing your feedback from the experience.

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Posted: 18 December 2010 08:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 138 ]
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Skeptical Inquirer articles on pseudoscientific “Ghost Hunters”:

Joe Nickell from 2006
Ben Radford from 2008
Karen Stollznow from 2009
Another Karen Stollznow from 2009
Matt Lowry from 2010

The problem is that without some background in the difference between science and pseudoscience, and an interest in making such distinctions, it’s easy to get hoodwinked by flim flam artists.

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Posted: 19 December 2010 04:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 139 ]
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Gnostikosis - 17 December 2010 01:01 PM
Soul Searcher - 17 December 2010 11:21 AM

Belive it or not, I have actually been to a ghost hunt with a group of ghost hunters, and the guy in the group had an infa-red camera, and I was actually able to watch an orb moving around in the corner. To me, that was interesting. Not sure what people who are more skeptical would say was the cause of it.

But I believed it to be some kind of energy field.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOtADMKa94o&feature=related

Usually orbs are explained as dust particles.
Sorry I have no experience with infra-red equipment. Can’t really afford to invest as a hobby however the best thing I think would be to get your own camera and see if you can do experiments to duplicate what you saw.

You can get a lens filter which filters out everything but infrared. Unfortunately the filter is so dark that exposure times increase to as much as 5-10 seconds, which of course is unsuitable to record any moving objects.
Moreover as IR is not desired in regular photography (IR must be focused at a different distance from regular light), modern digital cameras try to filter out all IR, making it more difficult to even record IR digitally. The old film cameras had no such problem. Film is sensitive to both VL and IR, all you need is the filter to block VL.
But if you have an older digital which may be sensitive to IR, a filter may well be worth the investment.

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Posted: 20 December 2010 08:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 140 ]
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Gnostikosis - 17 December 2010 11:09 AM

You never watch “Ghost Hunters”?

Ghosts use ambient heat energy to manifest. They use digital thermometers to look for unexplainable “cold spots” under the assumption “spirits” leave these cold spots after manifesting.

I have watched it once or twice, but I never understood why they put so much stock in “cold spots”.  I thought they were just another “unexplained phenomenon.”  But that doesn’t really answer anything.  What about when they’re not “manifesting”?  Where are they then?  Do they exist when they’re not “manifesting”?

The question then is whether they’re using these thermometers properly.  I once saw one ghost hunter show where they recorded a radical decrease in temperature with one of their digital thermometers.  But the other thermometers sitting right next to it didn’t show a thing.  They never seemed to consider the possibility that the thing was just malfunctioning!

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Posted: 20 December 2010 11:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 141 ]
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advocatus - 20 December 2010 08:05 AM
Gnostikosis - 17 December 2010 11:09 AM

You never watch “Ghost Hunters”?

Ghosts use ambient heat energy to manifest. They use digital thermometers to look for unexplainable “cold spots” under the assumption “spirits” leave these cold spots after manifesting.

I have watched it once or twice, but I never understood why they put so much stock in “cold spots”.  I thought they were just another “unexplained phenomenon.”  But that doesn’t really answer anything.  What about when they’re not “manifesting”?  Where are they then?  Do they exist when they’re not “manifesting”?

The question then is whether they’re using these thermometers properly.  I once saw one ghost hunter show where they recorded a radical decrease in temperature with one of their digital thermometers.  But the other thermometers sitting right next to it didn’t show a thing.  They never seemed to consider the possibility that the thing was just malfunctioning!

I’ve never watched “Ghost Hunters”.  Of course, I hardly ever turn on the TV because there is rarely anything worth watching.  This show you speak of, seems to confirm that belief too.  LOL

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Posted: 20 December 2010 12:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 142 ]
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advocatus - 20 December 2010 08:05 AM
Gnostikosis - 17 December 2010 11:09 AM

You never watch “Ghost Hunters”?

Ghosts use ambient heat energy to manifest. They use digital thermometers to look for unexplainable “cold spots” under the assumption “spirits” leave these cold spots after manifesting.

I have watched it once or twice, but I never understood why they put so much stock in “cold spots”.  I thought they were just another “unexplained phenomenon.”  But that doesn’t really answer anything.  What about when they’re not “manifesting”?  Where are they then?  Do they exist when they’re not “manifesting”?

The question then is whether they’re using these thermometers properly.  I once saw one ghost hunter show where they recorded a radical decrease in temperature with one of their digital thermometers.  But the other thermometers sitting right next to it didn’t show a thing.  They never seemed to consider the possibility that the thing was just malfunctioning!

It doesn’t answer anything, however they believe it does. If they get other people to believe it does too, then they can make money.

Not having justification for a belief never stopped anyone from making money. People believe in the possibility, they never think to justify that belief.

I kind of think I’ll never be rich cause I just won’t try to get people to buy into something I can’t justify.  downer

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Posted: 24 December 2010 10:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 143 ]
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I do ‘believe’ that I have experienced some kind of sensory phenomenon the attributes of which some people attach to the words ‘ghost’ or ‘haunting’. As the experiences I had were shared by other skeptics, I cannot doubt they happened. What they were however remains a mystery to me.

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Posted: 26 December 2010 01:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 144 ]
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I do believe in Jinn

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jinn

interesting ! right

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Posted: 26 December 2010 01:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 145 ]
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Phi- - 26 December 2010 01:06 PM

I do believe in Jinn

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jinn

interesting ! right

I am quite convinced that this (with a little tonic) may be at the bottom of many supposed ghost sightings cheese

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Posted: 26 December 2010 01:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 146 ]
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IMO, all these “spiritual” beings are metaphorical abstractions of recurring characteristics exhibited in human emotions, interactions, and common natural experiences.
It is no wonder that there are multitudes of gods, angels, demons, spirits, sprites, jinn. Each spirit is the motivator or facilitator of common specific human behavior, shared character traits, or shared experiences, both good and bad.
This is why we identify these spirits as,  “god of war”, “angel of merci”, etc. This can also be seen in our everyday expressions, such as “he was in good spirits”, ” he was both physically and spiritually (emotionally) drained”.
This may be the reason for theists to see scientists as worshipping the “gods” of science, where mathematics may be an “god of numbers”. Of course scientists follow a single discipline in their particular field. In the spiritual world these disciplines may be identified as angels of the god of mathematics (i.e. angel of algebra, geometry, etc).
It is all metaphorical to account for the apparent intelligent behavior of the universe (universal laws). The problem lies in the humanization of these “spiritual” entities, assigning them intelligence and purpose in relation to human existence.

[ Edited: 26 December 2010 01:59 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 26 December 2010 02:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 147 ]
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pelagic - 26 December 2010 01:21 PM
Phi- - 26 December 2010 01:06 PM

I do believe in Jinn

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jinn

interesting ! right

I am quite convinced that this (with a little tonic) may be at the bottom of many supposed ghost sightings cheese

Seems that Leprechauns in Ireland showed up when Hemp was first used for various purposes. i.e. ropes, clothing. Apparently, an unexpected side effect of burning hemp, is that the smoke conjures up several extraordinary creatures and manifestations. cheese

[ Edited: 26 December 2010 02:06 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 26 December 2010 02:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 148 ]
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pelagic - 26 December 2010 01:21 PM
Phi- - 26 December 2010 01:06 PM

I do believe in Jinn

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jinn

interesting ! right

I am quite convinced that this (with a little tonic) may be at the bottom of many supposed ghost sightings cheese

huh ! How come you are convinced ! you didn’t elaborate , or may be this is a sarcasm tongue wink

Write4U - 26 December 2010 01:56 PM

IMO, all these “spiritual” beings are metaphorical abstractions of recurring characteristics exhibited in human emotions, interactions, and common natural experiences.
It is no wonder that there are multitudes of gods, angels, demons, spirits, sprites, jinn. Each spirit is the motivator or facilitator of common specific human behavior, shared character traits, or shared experiences, both good and bad.
This is why we identify these spirits as,  “god of war”, “angel of merci”, etc. This can also be seen in our everyday expressions, such as “he was in good spirits”, ” he was both physically and spiritually (emotionally) drained”.
This may be the reason for theists to see scientists as worshipping the “gods” of science, where mathematics may be an “god of numbers”. Of course scientists follow a single discipline in their particular field. In the spiritual world these disciplines may be identified as angels of the god of mathematics (i.e. angel of algebra, geometry, etc).
It is all metaphorical to account for the apparent intelligent behavior of the universe (universal laws). The problem lies in the humanization of these “spiritual” entities, assigning them intelligence and purpose in relation to human existence.

well I don’t believe these “spiritual” beings are metaphorical abstractions , especially when you hear a lot of people who have experienced the presence of an unidentified force ,imagine you are standing on the beach alone nobody is near you and suddenly out of the blue “something” pushes you towards the ocean you almost drown but at the last moment someone saves you , as far as am concerned this is no way a metaphorical abstraction of anything .

Write4U - 26 December 2010 01:56 PM

This may be the reason for theists to see scientists as worshipping the “gods” of science, where mathematics may be an “god of numbers”. Of course scientists follow a single discipline in their particular field. In the spiritual world these disciplines may be identified as angels of the god of mathematics (i.e. angel of algebra, geometry, etc).
It is all metaphorical to account for the apparent intelligent behavior of the universe (universal laws). The problem lies in the humanization of these “spiritual” entities, assigning them intelligence and purpose in relation to human existence.

we don’t humanize the Jinns at all we see them as creatures who live in a different physical world and possess characterizations that we see as impossible to possess in our own universe , i can hardly imagine what atheists would say if scientists can proof the Multi-verse theory

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Posted: 26 December 2010 02:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 149 ]
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Phi,

Write4U - 26 December 2010 01:56 PM
This may be the reason for theists to see scientists as worshipping the “gods” of science, where mathematics may be an “god of numbers”. Of course scientists follow a single discipline in their particular field. In the spiritual world these disciplines may be identified as angels of the god of mathematics (i.e. angel of algebra, geometry, etc).
It is all metaphorical to account for the apparent intelligent behavior of the universe (universal laws). The problem lies in the humanization of these “spiritual” entities, assigning them intelligence and purpose in relation to human existence.

we don’t humanize the Jinns at all we see them as creatures who live in a different physical world and possess characterizations that we see as impossible to possess in our own universe , i can hardly imagine what atheists would say if scientists can proof the Multi-verse theory

Then how can the Jinn cross over into our universe? If they could not, how would we even know anything at all about them?
Your argument supports my posit of “metaphorical gods”.

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Posted: 26 December 2010 03:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 150 ]
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Write4U - 26 December 2010 02:41 PM

Phi,

Write4U - 26 December 2010 01:56 PM
This may be the reason for theists to see scientists as worshipping the “gods” of science, where mathematics may be an “god of numbers”. Of course scientists follow a single discipline in their particular field. In the spiritual world these disciplines may be identified as angels of the god of mathematics (i.e. angel of algebra, geometry, etc).
It is all metaphorical to account for the apparent intelligent behavior of the universe (universal laws). The problem lies in the humanization of these “spiritual” entities, assigning them intelligence and purpose in relation to human existence.

we don’t humanize the Jinns at all we see them as creatures who live in a different physical world and possess characterizations that we see as impossible to possess in our own universe , i can hardly imagine what atheists would say if scientists can proof the Multi-verse theory

Then how can the Jinn cross over into our universe? If they could not, how would we even know anything at all about them?
Your argument supports my posit of “metaphorical gods”.

I guess you haven’t read the wiki link ,anyway i’ll try answering you question

1- our universe is parallel to their universe but the mechanism is not yet understood , keep in mind they can manifest themselves in different forms
2- my argument doesn’t support yours , the spiritual world and the scientific world collide in the multiverse theory and that means the possibility to explain everything (which you see as spiritual) is more likely than treating these beings as “metaphorical gods”

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