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Poll
Have you ever calmy and logically debated young earthers?
Yes 9
No 3
No, but I’d like to 1
No, and I have no interest in it 4
Total Votes: 17
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Looking for debaters for young earthers
Posted: 12 February 2010 05:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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Kaizen - 12 February 2010 02:53 AM

I reach points where it’s just not worth the effort for me and/or they simply are unwilling to change their position. I have to say, the biggest reason for me is most of them simply aren’t willing to question their assumptions objectively.

anyone have thoughts on how to tackle that specific issue

someone’s unwillingness, refusal to listen beyond a point

willful ignorance
~ ~ ~

Is that something that can get confronted head on?

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Posted: 12 February 2010 03:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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citizenschallenge - 12 February 2010 05:25 AM
Kaizen - 12 February 2010 02:53 AM

I reach points where it’s just not worth the effort for me and/or they simply are unwilling to change their position. I have to say, the biggest reason for me is most of them simply aren’t willing to question their assumptions objectively.

anyone have thoughts on how to tackle that specific issue

someone’s unwillingness, refusal to listen beyond a point

willful ignorance
~ ~ ~

Is that something that can get confronted head on?

Here’s an exact quote from a fundy that my friend is debating with currently:

my version of creationism. i’m a 6-day creationist—- never changed and will never, no need, anyway

One thing that fascinates me more about this particular person is that she is a member of a “High IQ” society (one of the lowest accepting IQ score groups, if that matters). Not to say that really means much. I find it WAY more difficult to get away with stuff on this forum than any of the “high iq” forums, lmao.

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Posted: 13 February 2010 10:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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Kaizen - 12 February 2010 02:53 AM

my version of creationism. i’m a 6-day creationist—- never changed and will never, no need, anyway

One thing that fascinates me more about this particular person is that she is a member of a “High IQ” society (one of the lowest accepting IQ score groups, if that matters). Not to say that really means much. I find it WAY more difficult to get away with stuff on this forum than any of the “high iq” forums, lmao.

If I was their friend I might ask:
“Since you have such a high IQ, what do you think of an evangelical Christian that accepts evolution, like Francis Collins?  Francis outlines the evidence for evolution in “The Language of God.”
http://www.amazon.com/Language-God-Scientist-Presents-Evidence/dp/1416542744/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1266083189&sr=8-1

They will probably say they haven’t read it, so it is a matter of whether you want to spend time with them to work through it.

Also give then this from an evangelical scholar who accepts evolution:
http://www.ualberta.ca/~dlamoure/3EvoCr.htm

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Posted: 13 February 2010 01:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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I learned long ago that high IQ doesn’t necessarily lead to common sense, skepticism, and more importantly an ability to know what knowledge they do NOT posses. Most of the very intelligent people I know are also devoutly religious…..

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Posted: 13 February 2010 02:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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Bernie_Dehler - 13 February 2010 10:46 AM

If I was their friend I might ask:
“Since you have such a high IQ, what do you think of an evangelical Christian that accepts evolution, like Francis Collins?  Francis outlines the evidence for evolution in “The Language of God.”
http://www.amazon.com/Language-God-Scientist-Presents-Evidence/dp/1416542744/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1266083189&sr=8-1

They will probably say they haven’t read it, so it is a matter of whether you want to spend time with them to work through it.

Also give then this from an evangelical scholar who accepts evolution:
http://www.ualberta.ca/~dlamoure/3EvoCr.htm

She doesn’t appear to care for anyone, including other theists, that might disagree with her beliefs. A similar approach was taken by pointing out other theists and she proceed to spit out some ad hominems and then ignored any further discussion on it. She is constantly guilty of using various logical fallacies and then moving on, never to look back at the point. These are the types of people that I cannot have any serious discussion with. My friend who’s debating her (an atheist/skeptic also in some high IQ groups) sees her as “an interesting study in indoctrination” rather than thinking he’s having a serious debate.

At one point before I gave up on her, she asked me “What IQ evolution” has. I know it probably has more to do with indoctrination than anything else, but I can’t help but qustion her actual “intelligence.”

[ Edited: 13 February 2010 02:16 PM by Kaizen ]
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Posted: 13 February 2010 02:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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asanta - 13 February 2010 01:01 PM

I learned long ago that high IQ doesn’t necessarily lead to common sense, skepticism, and more importantly an ability to know what knowledge they do NOT posses. Most of the very intelligent people I know are also devoutly religious…..

Aside from the devoutly religious part, this pretty much sums up my experience in the high iq forums. It’s the lack of skepticism that really amazes me in the “HIQ” world. I’ve seen people debate about their beliefs in psychic abilities, visiting aliens, horoscopes, biblical literalism, you name it. I do find the skeptics in these groups as well, but I just expected so many more than I tend to see. Because the “skeptical training” people go through in forums like CFI, I personally feel that I see more intelligent posts more often in places like these than in the HIQ world. I tend to see more creative and complex posts more often over there. Many of those folks don’t like to deal with any type of opposition to their beliefs and that’s where I find many of them are flawed in their thinking. They are supposing that they alone are capable of replacing the rigors of the scientific method and the abrasive process of methodical debate with their thought processes.

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Posted: 13 February 2010 09:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Kaizen - 13 February 2010 02:09 PM
Bernie_Dehler - 13 February 2010 10:46 AM

If I was their friend I might ask:
“Since you have such a high IQ, what do you think of an evangelical Christian that accepts evolution, like Francis Collins?  Francis outlines the evidence for evolution in “The Language of God.”
http://www.amazon.com/Language-God-Scientist-Presents-Evidence/dp/1416542744/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1266083189&sr=8-1

They will probably say they haven’t read it, so it is a matter of whether you want to spend time with them to work through it.

Also give then this from an evangelical scholar who accepts evolution:
http://www.ualberta.ca/~dlamoure/3EvoCr.htm

She doesn’t appear to care for anyone, including other theists, that might disagree with her beliefs. A similar approach was taken by pointing out other theists and she proceed to spit out some ad hominems and then ignored any further discussion on it. She is constantly guilty of using various logical fallacies and then moving on, never to look back at the point. These are the types of people that I cannot have any serious discussion with. My friend who’s debating her (an atheist/skeptic also in some high IQ groups) sees her as “an interesting study in indoctrination” rather than thinking he’s having a serious debate.

At one point before I gave up on her, she asked me “What IQ evolution” has. I know it probably has more to do with indoctrination than anything else, but I can’t help but qustion her actual “intelligence.”

RE:
“She doesn’t appear to care for anyone, including other theists, that might disagree with her beliefs.”

One of my favorite bible quotes to share with Christians like that:

Proverbs 18:17
The first to present his case seems right, till another comes forward and questions him.

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Posted: 14 February 2010 03:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Bernie_Dehler - 13 February 2010 09:06 PM

Proverbs 18:17
The first to present his case seems right, till another comes forward and questions him.


Cool, I hadn’t heard that one before. 

But Bernie,
So what about your title to this thread: “Looking for debaters for young earthers”

its been a fun discussion
but could you elaborate on that a little more

who
what
where
how
????

just curious
wink

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Posted: 14 February 2010 09:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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citizenschallenge - 14 February 2010 03:26 PM
Bernie_Dehler - 13 February 2010 09:06 PM

Proverbs 18:17
The first to present his case seems right, till another comes forward and questions him.


Cool, I hadn’t heard that one before. 

But Bernie,
So what about your title to this thread: “Looking for debaters for young earthers”

its been a fun discussion
but could you elaborate on that a little more

who
what
where
how
????

just curious
wink

Who/what/where/how? the first message said it:
“Answers in Genesis (AiG), Ken Ham’s Ministry (the guy who brought us the creation museum), is on Facebook here:
http://www.facebook.com/AnswersInGenesis?ref=mf#!/AnswersInGenesis?v=feed&story_fbid=5003891285116”

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Posted: 14 February 2010 11:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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Bernie_Dehler - 14 February 2010 09:31 PM

Who/what/where/how? the first message said it:
“Answers in Genesis (AiG), Ken Ham’s Ministry (the guy who brought us the creation museum), is on Facebook here:
http://www.facebook.com/AnswersInGenesis?ref=mf#!/AnswersInGenesis?v=feed&story_fbid=5003891285116”

Oh you mean reply to his blog?

holly molly dog dewdy, you mean where the tire meets the road….
so how does one reply to something like this:

Aaron:
I agree entirely, Derek, getting evolutionists to be rational is like going on a hunt to find someplace where water flows uphill!
February 6 at 11:27pm

shock

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Posted: 15 February 2010 10:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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citizenschallenge - 14 February 2010 11:07 PM
Bernie_Dehler - 14 February 2010 09:31 PM

Who/what/where/how? the first message said it:
“Answers in Genesis (AiG), Ken Ham’s Ministry (the guy who brought us the creation museum), is on Facebook here:
http://www.facebook.com/AnswersInGenesis?ref=mf#!/AnswersInGenesis?v=feed&story_fbid=5003891285116”

Oh you mean reply to his blog?

holly molly dog dewdy, you mean where the tire meets the road….
so how does one reply to something like this:

Aaron:
I agree entirely, Derek, getting evolutionists to be rational is like going on a hunt to find someplace where water flows uphill!
February 6 at 11:27pm

shock

Just reply to the comments that you think you can reasonable and logically debate.

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Posted: 15 February 2010 12:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Bernie_Dehler - 15 February 2010 10:10 AM

Just reply to the comments that you think you can reasonable and logically debate.

ok i was just having a little fun   sick

But I get your point.  Right now I have a few other windmills in my sights.
But sometime I’ll probably revisit them folks and have some fun. 
you can bet I’ll let you know

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