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the chiropractic debate
Posted: 22 April 2010 09:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 46 ]
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Chiropractic AT IT’S BEST is no better than physical therapy. PERIOD. Any chiropractor who says s/he can treat disease is practicing quackery. Simon Singh in his article against the BCA stated his case very well. Your microbiology professor ‘blowing an artery’ is misdirection, and impresses me not one whit. long face
http://gimpyblog.wordpress.com/2008/08/17/the-libellous-simon-singh-article-on-chiropractors/

[ Edited: 22 April 2010 09:14 PM by asanta ]
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Posted: 23 April 2010 08:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 47 ]
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‘Felix’ You are not addressing any of our comments. You appear to be intent on advertising and promoting chiropractic treatment. You are just interested in spamming the formum, and not in honest discussion.

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Posted: 23 April 2010 07:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 48 ]
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Please post link to court case and/or citation of legal authority. Otherwise these are just baseless assertions and claims to conspiracies.

I have access to legal research databases and can easily obtain text of any legal judgement in the world going back to the 19th century. So, please the facts.

Too much WOO, not enough facts.

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Posted: 23 April 2010 09:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 49 ]
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Felix - 22 April 2010 09:02 PM

this discussion is just too wide ranging to devote a ton of time to.  With respect to the original question-

The original question was: Why do so many people hold Chiropractic in contempt?

Felix,
You started a spirited defense of your profession.  Please this isn’t a good time to disappear.  Fair questions have been asked in a civil manner.  Some of us do look forward to your reply.

peter

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Posted: 23 April 2010 10:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 50 ]
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citizenschallenge - 23 April 2010 09:27 PM

Felix,
You started a spirited defense of your profession.  Please this isn’t a good time to disappear.  Fair questions have been asked in a civil manner.  Some of us do look forward to your reply.
peter

CC, the answer to that question is “because they promote pseudoscientific woo”. Felix has not mounted a “spirited defence”, he has mounted an advertising campaign for Chiropractic. Unsubstanciated claims next to false ones.

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Posted: 23 April 2010 11:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 51 ]
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My anecdote regarding the head of the quackery committee was a footnote.  The fact is, there are well financed, highly organized groups that are motivated to contain and eliminate our profession.  I believe that this is the case on this board/forum right here.  I answered the post as well as I could. The reason why public perception of chiropractors suffers, is because money, and organized groups shape it that way.  A few years ago, the journal Neurology published an article about chiropractic , and issued a press release about it.  It is my understanding the Journal of Neurology had never issued a press release before.  Why did they decide to do that with the chiropractic article?  Because they want to sow the idea in the public’s mind that we’re unsafe. 

Can I think for everybody in my profession?  No I can’t.  I am not egotistical enough to believe that I have the solution to everyone’s problems.  Do I always thoroughly check out chiropractors I’m referring to?  I do for sure! 

I’m not really sure what there is to add to the discussion,  I think I’ve answered the original question the best I can.

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Posted: 23 April 2010 11:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 52 ]
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this discussion aside- I notice that there is not a forum for mainstream medicine here.  Now, why is that the case?  Not up for discussion in this part of the internet?  I probably just didn’t look hard enough right?

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Posted: 23 April 2010 11:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 53 ]
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If you have a mainstream medicine topic you want to discuss, you could just post it in the Science and Technology section, Felix.

Occam

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Posted: 24 April 2010 06:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 54 ]
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Felix - 23 April 2010 11:15 PM

My anecdote regarding the head of the quackery committee was a footnote.  The fact is, there are well financed, highly organized groups that are motivated to contain and eliminate our profession.  I believe that this is the case on this board/forum right here.  I answered the post as well as I could. The reason why public perception of chiropractors suffers, is because money, and organized groups shape it that way.

Which “well financed, highly organized groups” are posting information on this forum? I’d like to know, because I haven’t seen any of them. And I’d be willing to be that as an organization CFI is smaller than the American Chiropractic Association, or whatever professional group is the largest here in the US.

Felix - 23 April 2010 11:15 PM

  A few years ago, the journal Neurology published an article about chiropractic , and issued a press release about it.  It is my understanding the Journal of Neurology had never issued a press release before.  Why did they decide to do that with the chiropractic article?  Because they want to sow the idea in the public’s mind that we’re unsafe. 

Right. They want to sow the idea that Chiropractic is unsafe, because in fact, ... it is.

And HERE‘s an interesting writeup of an article written by 3 chiropractors from the December 2, 2009 issue of Chiropractic and Osteopathy:

No supportive evidence is found for the chiropractic subluxation being associated with any disease process or of creating suboptimal health conditions requiring intervention. Regardless of popular appeal this leaves the subluxation construct in the realm of unsupported speculation. This lack of supportive evidence suggests the subluxation construct has no valid clinical applicability.

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Posted: 24 April 2010 12:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 55 ]
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Felix - 23 April 2010 11:15 PM

  A few years ago, the journal Neurology published an article about chiropractic , and issued a press release about it.  It is my understanding the Journal of Neurology had never issued a press release before.  Why did they decide to do that with the chiropractic article?  Because they want to sow the idea in the public’s mind that we’re unsafe.

Why did they do it?  Because people who go into medicine generally care about their fellow human beings.  They don’t want to see harm come to people due to ignorance, misinformation and pseudoscience.  So they did what they felt was best in order to do what doctors do - help people.

Felix - 23 April 2010 11:15 PM


I think I’ve answered the original question the best I can.

Yes you have.  Your answers and your discussion is appreciated.

Now may I ask you 3 questions - not counting this one!  grin


1.)  Do you believe chiropractic can effectively treat non-musculoskeletal diseases?

2.)  Do you believe in the germ theory?

3.)  Do you believe vaccines are generally safe and effective?

Nothing insulting about the questions, I’m just trying to get a grasp of where you personally stand on these issues, since chiropractors vary wildly on these issues.  For the record, my answers to the above 3 questions are, “No,” “Yes,” and “Yes.”

Thanks!

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Posted: 25 April 2010 04:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 56 ]
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Take a look at the list of Chiropractor victims from What’s the Harm.
http://www.whatstheharm.net/chiropractic.html
An example :24 year old Kristi sought relief from sinus headaches from her chiropractor. A neck manipulation caused a brain stem stroke and she died three days later. The chiropractor later paid a $1000 fine.

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Posted: 01 May 2010 07:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 57 ]
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this is off the original thread starters question but..

1 I only treat musculo-skeletal complaints. 

2 Germ theory is taught extensively in chiropractic college- clinical mircrobiology was one of the best classes!

3 Our campus provided vaccines to kids no charge.

It seems to me like you’re reading textbooks about chiropractors that are hundreds of years old!

So, for people randomly reading this thread, these are not objective people you are hearing from on the other side of this ‘debate’.
They’re just PR machines left over from aforementioned AMA suit.

Try the american chiropractic association

http://www.acatoday.org/index.cfm

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Posted: 01 May 2010 09:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 58 ]
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Your beloved chiropractor association says chiropractors can help treat ear infections.

What about chiropractors that claim to treat HIV?

And what is your opinion of Chiropractors currently claiming they can treat Autism?

What about this chiropractor who says he can CURE CANCER and if you get cancer, it’s because you never had chiropractic treatment?

If you destroy your immune system function through cytotoxicity (a toxic lifestyle), a degenerating spine and nervous system (which also leads to toxicity), and the use of the most toxic substances in the world (medications), then you cause yourself (yes, yourself) or cause your children to get cancer now or later.

Chiropractors who claim to treat asthma.

The gain in health achieved after spinal manipulations were performed is expected to reduce the incidence and severity of pathogenic invasion of the airways.

I could go on and on and on… and these ARE NOT from 100 years ago. They claim chiropractic can stop disease. That is just silly. If we’re going to suggest to “people scrolling through this thread’ what to do, I suggest picking up the yellow pages, phoning local chiropractors, and asking if they can treat ear infections. Most are not claiming to treat back pain only. Most are claiming really wacky shit. I’m sure there are a few “good ones” out there, but I’d say they are few and far between.

[ Edited: 01 May 2010 09:41 AM by Jules ]
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Posted: 01 May 2010 01:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 59 ]
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Felix - 01 May 2010 07:10 AM

this is off the original thread starters question but..

1 I only treat musculo-skeletal complaints. 


It seems to me like you’re reading textbooks about chiropractors that are hundreds of years old!

Ok, so YOU only treat musculoskeletal complaints, did you look at the What’s the Harm link??? Most of those cases are post 2000!! NOT 100 years ago!

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Posted: 02 May 2010 06:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 60 ]
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Felix - 01 May 2010 07:10 AM

1 I only treat musculo-skeletal complaints.

Technically I didn’t ask what you personally treated.  I specifically asked if you believed chiropractic can effectively treat non-musculoskeletal diseases. 

Anyway, how about subluxations?  Do you believe subluxations exist?

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