jump_in_the_pit - 08 March 2012 10:56 PM

Write4U - 06 March 2012 12:49 AM

jump_in_the_pit,
Disproving Atheists in 82 seconds

We covered this in another thread recently.  It was a discussion on the argument for “irreducible complexity”.

I must have missed that, I haven’t been following this forum closely, lately.

Here is a little clip which disproves one of the often used examples of irreducible complexity by the ID proponents.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQQ7ubVIqo4&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL29E681EB1799AA2F

or from the very beginning of the lecture

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9a-lFn4hqY&feature=bf_next&list=PL29E681EB1799AA2F&lf=results_main

Professor Elaine Pagels does a good job with the Bible, she seems religious, but she’s a skeptic too.  She has a new book about the history behind the book of Revelation in the Bible, and she’s done a good interview with NPR about it, about how the author John of Patmos was a Jew who believed in the Messiah during Roman military occupation Jerusalem, just after the Romans laid waste to the Jewish temple, and that the book was written in protest of the Roman army, the seven headed beast being a coded for the ancient Roman leadership.  The history speaks to the modern day mis-interpretation that the “End times” is near, which holds no water.

“I don’t think we understand this book until we understand that it’s wartime literature,” she says. “It comes out of that war, and it comes out of people who have been destroyed by war.

“Other images in Revelation — which include bright red beasts with seven heads, and dragons, monsters and cosmic eruptions — were likely influenced by the eruption of Mount Vesuvius, which buried and destroyed the city of Pompeii, she says.”

“It seems as though [John] reacted to that, saying, ‘Jesus is coming and he is going to destroy all of this.’ It was John’s conviction that the destruction of Jerusalem was the beginning of the end of time that Jesus had predicted.”

Ya’ know, Krista Tippett is a theologian, she’s on the heavenly side of the aisle, but she’ll do some good science interviews from time-to-time, many of her interviews are heavenly, but some of them are good. 

The On Being: Janna Levin interview was a very good expression of the physics/scientific view-point of the world, the passionate search for the facts, the single-minded focus on the search.

The On Being: Oceanographer Sylvia Earle interview was good, about walking the bottom of the ocean, the world that we don’t yet know, the Earth’s greatest expanse of terrafirma (the sub-marine type).  Good one. 

jump_in_the_pit - 11 June 2012 01:03 PM

Ya’ know, Krista Tippett is a theologian, she’s on the heavenly side of the aisle, but she’ll do some good science interviews from time-to-time, many of her interviews are heavenly, but some of them are good. 

The On Being: Janna Levin interview was a very good expression of the physics/scientific view-point of the world, the passionate search for the facts, the single-minded focus on the search.

The On Being: Oceanographer Sylvia Earle interview was good, about walking the bottom of the ocean, the world that we don’t yet know, the Earth’s greatest expanse of terrafirma (the sub-marine type).  Good one. 

Good stuff. I used to listen to her show/podcast a lot, back when it was called Speaking of Faith and I was in my exploring, post-christian-but-still-spiritual phase. I remember one show where she talked to a Jewish guy (might have even been a Rabbi) who was also a physicist. I remember being amazed at how the guy accepted everything revealed by science but still held on to his faith. I thought it was a bit absurd, to be honest, although interesting. It was along about that time that I decided I was not going to be that guy. It was either reason or faith, you can’t have both.

FreeInKy - 12 June 2012 07:13 AM

Good stuff. I used to listen to her show/podcast a lot, back when it was called Speaking of Faith

... and I was in my exploring, post-christian-but-still-spiritual phase. I remember one show where she talked to a Jewish guy (might have even been a Rabbi) who was also a physicist. I remember being amazed at how the guy accepted everything revealed by science but still held on to his faith. I thought it was a bit absurd, to be honest, although interesting. It was along about that time that I decided I was not going to be that guy. It was either reason or faith, you can’t have both.

So while you were “post-christian-but-still-spiritual”, what did you think of her science episodes, and of her heavenly ones?  Did it broaden your mind at all, or sway you towards the profane world?  Religion is a dedicated pursuit, I’m not surprised to see anyone stick to it, but happy to see them step across the aisle.

When I hear her with an irreligious ear, I can hardly listen to the wishful thinking and dreaminess in her heavenly episodes, but the science ones really grab my attention.  She’s really trying to straddle a very wide aisle, not even she has tried to merge the two into one show, from what I’ve heard.  :shrug:

hmmm, pretty good info in this thread

On the historical value of the Bible:

Hector Avalos is quoting Dever because he is a Bible scholar who, like all scholars disregard the historical accuracy of the Bible but Dever, wants to keep just a few books in high regard.  So Avalos demonstrates the attitude of this man, so enthusiastic about the historical accuracy of the Bible, with:

[15:21] [Quoting Dever] “With most scholars I would exclude much of the Pentateuch, specifically the books of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, and Numbers… much of what is called in the English Bible ‘poetry,’ ‘wisdom,’ and ‘devotional literature’ must also be eliminated from historical consideration.  Ruth, Ester, Job, and Danial historical novella with contrived “real-life settings” the latter dating as late as the second century B.C.”  Well what’s left?!  Well, what’s left is Samual, Kings, Judges.

Just more reason why you should not read the Bible, read anything but the Bible, even read the Bible scholars, just not the Bible itself.

[31:30]“Yes you’ve probably heard of the James ossuary.  This is supposed to be the earliest mention of Jesus in the archaeological record.”  It has been declared to be a forgery by the Israeli Antiquities Authority.  And beyond that, Jesus and James were common names anyway.

[36:55]“In a 2005 Gallop poll: fewer than half of Americans can name the first book of the Bible.”    Wouldn’t you also like to be American too?

Minnesota Atheists: Hector Avalos - The end of Biblical Studies

“The Resurrection of Jesus: Fact or Fiction”  A debate between Dr. Lane Craig and Dr. Hector Avalos on February 1, 2004, at BIOLA University, Iowa, USA.  All the episodes are short audios on Youtube.

Resurrection of Jesus: Fact or Fiction? 0/14 - Introduction [7:01]

Resurrection of Jesus: Fact or Fiction? 1/14 - William Lane Craig opens [10:02]

Resurrection of Jesus: Fact or Fiction? 2/14 - William Lane Craig opens

Resurrection of Jesus: Fact or Fiction? 3/14 - Hector Avalos opens

Resurrection of Jesus: Fact or Fiction? 4/14

Resurrection of Jesus: Fact or Fiction? 5/14 - First Rebuttals

Resurrection of Jesus: Fact or Fiction? 6/14 - First Rebuttals

Resurrection of Jesus: Fact or Fiction? 7/14 - First Rebuttals [5:58]

Resurrection of Jesus: Fact or Fiction? 8/14 - William Lane Craig’s Second Rebuttal

Resurrection of Jesus: Fact or Fiction? 9/14 - Hector Avalos’ Second Rebuttal [5:43]

Resurrection of Jesus: Fact or Fiction? 10/14 - Concluding Remarks [8:29]

Resurrection of Jesus: Fact or Fiction? 11/14 - Q&A [7:30]

Resurrection of Jesus: Fact or Fiction? 12/14 - Q&A [9:39]

Resurrection of Jesus: Fact or Fiction? 13/14 - Q&A [5:29]

Resurrection of Jesus: Fact or Fiction? 14/14 - Q&A [5:46]

—————————————————————————————-

BIOLA University: Craig vs. Avalos: The Resurrection of Jesus: Fact or Fiction? Audio-CD $15

BIOLA University: Dr. William Lane Craig

Reasonable Faith: The Resurrection of Jesus: Fact or Fiction?  Craig vs. Avalos  This is Dr. Craig’s web site.

Iowa State University: Hector Avalos

BibleGateway: Matthew 27 (New International Version)

Richard Feynman says that trees come from air.

Feynman ‘Fun to Imagine’ 2: Fire