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Why do Tea Partiers love ‘Atlas Shrugged’?
Posted: 26 May 2010 10:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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midnight.train - 26 May 2010 04:24 PM

how many tea partiers actually have the attention span to get through atlas shrugged?

can’t… read… busy hating government…

I would be surprised if more than a few have actually read it. I think they are more for what they think it represents. Sort of like knowing Obama was born in Kenya, damn the proof!

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Posted: 26 May 2010 11:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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asanta - 26 May 2010 10:54 PM

I would be surprised if more than a few have actually read it.

I wouldn’t know about that, but some folks are sure feeling good about increased sales.

January 21, 2010

Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged sold more than 500,000 copies in 2009, more than double the previous record set in 2008, reports Penguin USA, publisher of the four American editions. For the first time, combined annual sales of Ayn Rand’s four novels totaled more than 1,000,000 copies.

“The explosion in sales of Atlas Shrugged more than a half century after its initial publication is truly remarkable,” said Dr. Yaron Brook, president of the Ayn Rand Institute. “Annual sales of Atlas Shrugged have been increasing for decades to a level never seen in Ayn Rand’s lifetime.

“People are discovering the prescience of Ayn Rand’s writing. They’re seeing the policies of Atlas Shrugged villains Wesley Mouch and Cuffy Meigs acted out by our government officials today. They’re looking for answers on how to stop government intrusion in our lives. Atlas Shrugged provides those answers, and many more.”

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Posted: 27 May 2010 12:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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Buying it, and slogging through the entire book are two different things. Sort of like their bibles, everyone’s got one, so when the visitors show up, company can see that they are on the side of right and good. If they read it, they pick and choose from a few feel good passages given to them by their ministers/leaders. I don’t think any of them have read the book from cover to cover. I have the feeling they are doing the same with Atlas Shrugged. The bible is the biggest selling book in history, but the only ones who read the entire book are atheists! LOL

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Posted: 27 May 2010 08:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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citizenschallenge,

Hate to throw a monkey wrench into your concern for what is the rallying cry of the current Administration and much of Congress, “social justice”, but you have missed Ayn Rand’s primary interest: “individualism”.

I read Rand beginning iin high school and followed the development of the “objectivist” movement from its inception.

You wrote: “Seems that the image of the hero’s interests coming first, the public be damned, has become a rallying cry”.

But, Rand’s philosophy established in her fiction, was reiteration of the Constitution’s Preamble that every individual has unalienable rights “to life, liberty, and the PURSUIT of happiness”.

Nowhere in her philosophy is ANYTHING remotely resembling your view that she proposed “the public be damned”.

Nevertheless, she saw her “heroes” as men who accomplished much through their own efforts despite being fenced in by people who believe in the atrocious concepts of personal greed and “social justice”.

What about an individual’s freedom and individual dedication to those for whom he is responsible do you find erroneous, even obnoxious? Do you believe an individual has an “unalienable OBLIGATION” to others beyond not hindering him in his “pursuit of happiness”?

Can you define “social justice”? Can you compare and contrast “individual justice” v. “social justice”?

[ Edited: 27 May 2010 08:14 AM by Analytic ]
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Posted: 27 May 2010 10:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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The majority of tea party members are religious Christians.  Ayn Rand was banned by many churches as she tried to explain the virtue of selfishness.  I would bet only a handful understand this premise.  Before the Election of 1964, my husband and I attended a lecture at the Shrine Auditorium where Ms Rand spoke for several hours on the subject of Objectivism in our lives and politics.  She had a long and valuable question and answer period where someone asked her opinion of Senator Barry Goldwater.  Goldwater had made several comments about Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell and Ms. Rand applauded his courage.  She relunctedly endorsed Goldwater and got a standing ovation. 

In the parking lot of my kids’ school I announced this endorsement but was told that she was not a Christian and we must not allow her endorserment of Goldwater to be spread. I had no problem getting through “The Fountainhead, We the Living and Atlas Shrugged” as I had a background in reading all kinds of books and was thrilled with her description of James Taggert’s wife.  She was an uneducated non-thinker who ended up seeing the truth of her husband’s lack of ethics.  One of the reasons I hope they never film this book is what Hollywood would to do this brilliant character who played a minor part of the story. 

Rand did not write about bimbos like Palin and Rand Paul.  She wrote about the power of the government when the people gave in to push from the government to tell them what to do.  The government has always offered a short cut that in the long run turns into slavery.  She used the railroads to describe how property owners were bought and sold seldom to their advantage.  Today we see it in our Airlines, Automobile industries and lately in our oil production.  Dr. Leonard Piekoff took over the Ayn Rand estate and updates the books with his opinions of the questions that people ask of him.  He is a jewel and spoke at Berkeley when one of my kids was there. 

My respoect for Ms Rand’s writing came at a time when I needed warnings about the power of the government.  Remember, she had been a close friend of Alan Greenspan and made her aware of the potential of government direction leading to government ownership.  I have to admit Hollywood did a great job with “The Fountainhead” but Rand herself did the screen play. 

The way the churches have spent 50 years slandering Ayn Rand, there is no way the tea party would ever get through Atlas Shrugged.

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Posted: 27 May 2010 12:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Analytic - 27 May 2010 08:11 AM

Nowhere in her philosophy is ANYTHING remotely resembling your view that she proposed “the public be damned”.

First, I got that quote from a pro-Rand site.
Second, when I relisten to her click 1959 interview with Mike Wallace that is certainly the impression that continues to come across.

(video 1/3 ±4min) quoting Ayn:
“If man want to live on the earth as a human being he
he must hold reason as absolute.
Reason be his only guide to action
and he must live by the independent judgment of his own mind
man’s highest moral purpose is the achievement of his own happiness.

“he must not force other people nor accept their right to force him
each man must live as a end in himself and follow his own rational self interest.”

Analytic - 27 May 2010 08:11 AM

Nevertheless, she saw her “heroes” as men who accomplished much through their own efforts despite being fenced in by people who believe in the atrocious concepts of personal greed and “social justice”.

Yea, just like those BP, et al, oil industry heroes who put maximizing profits, rushing and short-cuts (to say nothing of feeling contempt for clean up preparedness), and that idiotic hubris that so typifies the insanely rich.

The same clan that is using every polished PR trick in the book along with millions of dollars to further ignoring global warming understanding - which is actually starting to bite us in the ass, while jokers like Watt’s Up with that Fool continue churning out confusion, rather than pursuing rational explaining.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Personally the part that really enrages me about the right wing self made man crap
is that it continues to ignore the fact that what made American great was this chunk of land with its cornucopia of resources waiting to get plucked.  The “hero’s” that got plopped in the middle of it had next to nothing to do with their fortunes and empires and the land they sucked dry had everything to do with it.

Now we are getting to the end of this drunken laissez-faire spree
and all those scared people out there think by pretending nothing has changed we won’t have to face the facts of life.

Wake up, smell the coffee, and look at the real world rather than a novel’s ‘oh I wish i could’ piece of excrement.
Ayn’s fantasies only holds suicide at the real world end of her rainbow.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
[excuse me for getting a little over excited here.  But, from a pragmatic (real world we inhabit) stand point it’s silly destructive stuff.]

[ Edited: 27 May 2010 09:40 PM by citizenschallenge ]
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Posted: 27 May 2010 12:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Respectfully, I can only agree to disagree.

I’m feeling faint from running in circles. sick

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Posted: 27 May 2010 03:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Dead Monky - 26 May 2010 09:48 AM

Pretty good, huh?

But yeah, the Repubs are still being assholes.  Not that that’s a surprise or anything.

Personally, I’m going to vote Cthulhu

2012-presidential-candidacy-democrat-republican-cthulhu-dago-political-poster-1268928683.jpg

Good point. Why vote for the lesser evil? LOL

Take care,

Derek

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Posted: 27 May 2010 09:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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harry canyon - 27 May 2010 03:58 PM

Good point. Why vote for the lesser evil? LOL

To keep the far worse evil out!

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Posted: 28 May 2010 04:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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Citizen’s Challenge wrote “Wake up, smell the coffee, and look at the real world rather than a novel’s ‘oh I wish i could’ piece of excrement.
Ayn’s fantasies only holds suicide at the real world end of her rainbow.”

In one of the later editions of A.S., Dr. Piekoff wrote a new introduction.  Rand wrote of her ideal characters, not of anything resembling real people.  Romance writers try to describe reality in human values but Rand stuck to her ideal characters.  She was one of the few writers of her time who did this.  She was a great admirer of Aristotle and his dream of heroes.  If you recall one character saw the reality of truth in American values.  Slowly one after the other came to realize that individuality based on ideals is how we all should react to the imposing government and imposing other people.  You cannot put her books into today’s society as the human species of this time are unable to understand right from wrong.  We are still hooked on right from left.

The majority of humans are Christians and therefore of no value to themselves or others.  Born and raised in sin, we have no other action than to throw ourselves prone in the eyes of God and beg for forgiveness.  Rand gave us character ideals with some weakness thrown in to give it color. 

In the late 30’‘s it was a mark of total failure to ever accept welfare from any level of government.  Rand describes this as never having to take money or power for actions not earned.  It is hard to realize that our values have been changed through the churches, failed parenting skills, with the attitude that the government owes us everything we have and can accomplish.  What most people will never understand is that to be the individuals of our ideals means getting off our lazy asses and brains and developing our ideals as individuals.  Hell, most of us are too lazy to even consider this.  We sit around and vote for people who will take care of us from the crib to the grave.  How many of you here work a good week using paid time to communicate on these internet forums?  There is thought that your paycheck does not reflect your hours worked.  Today in our government, we pay big bucks for our Congress who work half the time reported.  We wonder why our oil wells are exploding and our water dikes fail.  A.S. clearly describes how American values have destroyed our lives.  It is too far gone to try to change our values to recognize and live through right over wrong instead of how much money we can screw out of our government and each other.

Today our heroes are killers of whatever we are told to be our enemy.  We send our kids to war not knowing right from wrong and they come home mentally and physically damaged.

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Posted: 28 May 2010 06:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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What a waste of blood and treasure if our courageous fighters come home without COMPLETE VICTORY! They carry out what their leaders direct.

I believe the 2nd Gulf War was/is unwarranted. And that the Commander in Chief was taken in, primarily, by a sleazy crowd of hypocritical neo-cons - including Cheney - falsely claiming that Iraq’s supposed weapons of mass destruction (WMDs) were aimed at the United States.

As Scott Ritter stated, Iraq had no - and was making no - WMDs.

Who else to rely on?

After Gulf War 1, Ritter was charged with - and was in country for many years - investigating and overseeing the destruction of Iraq’s WMDs. His team’s intense investigation was spot on.

But he was ridiculed because he went to Iraq before the 2nd invasion and found no evidence of WMDs or their construction. He was said to be in Saddam’s pocket.
———————————————————————-
To my knowledge, the United States had NEVER before engaged in a pre-emptive war in which a putative enemy was attacked before there was an attack on the United States.

And then, without completing its job, the US military was withdrawn. Even as General Schwartzkopf(sp?) had military control of Baghdad and could likely have captured or killed Saddam Hussein.

That MINDLESS order to cease operations was issued by the earlier Bush. And, as was the 2nd invasion, that decision was heavily supported by the witless Congress who ordered continuing funding.

Should America’s security ACTUALLY be threatened by the military attack of another entity, I believe that the Constitution makes clear that it is the obligation of the President to retaliate and secure the unconditional surrender of the attackers; as was done with Germany and Japan - and is still being undertaken in Afghanistan.

[ Edited: 28 May 2010 06:52 AM by Analytic ]
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Posted: 28 May 2010 06:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Follow the money, and all is made clear…

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Posted: 28 May 2010 06:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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For those of you unwilling to vote for an Elder Evil, whether Cthulhu, Rand, or Palin, you could always:

vote-whig.jpg

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Posted: 28 May 2010 07:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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Please describe COMPLETE VICTORY.  Is it to destroy Islam?  Can we even describe what “success” means to our Government Leaders and then the American public? 

In my days, Ayn Rand tried to define the ideals that make up America.  Coming from Communist Russia she understood the whole free enterprise laissez faire world of independents.  In today’s American values, we see greed of the have nots, searching for a way to redistribute the wealth of those who have it.  Everyone has a chance at making wealth; we can build it or we can invest in it.  Instead we choose to tax the wealth built by others and hand it to those who sit with their hands out.  Rand reminds us that we are individual humans with developed brains. 

Our elected leaders play on every emotion of the public to sell ways of getting the income of others turned over to the government.  When the government and the voters are told that entire nations are under the control of terrorists, we will run headlong into wars to bring about a victory for America. 

Apparently I read more into Atlas Shrugged and Rand’s other books than those of you who came in late. 

What caused this dumbing down of individuals with developed brains?  That could be one hell of a thread for CFI.  In my world it was television trying to describe the American family as being totally ignorant and unable to get through a single day without being reminded of our ignorance.  I opened a book store the same day that cable was installed in a village on the central coast of California.  I could not give the books away.  I had specialized in good books for children to build their own libraries.  What the public wanted were games like D and D. 

The only Victory America should ever sell is a victory over ignorance.  This has been the message from Rand since she wrote her first play in college.

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Posted: 28 May 2010 07:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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Sandy Price - 28 May 2010 07:09 AM

The only Victory America should ever sell is a victory over ignorance.

With you there. Which is why I can’t vote Republican even though I might like some of their other ideas. Because the ‘values voters’ are pushing ignorance and the Republican party encourages them. I suspect that the real leaders of the Republicans privately scoff, and just use the values voters for their votes.

For America to really triumph in victory over ignorance, it would have to have a culture war with itself.

Oh, wait…

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