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Why do Tea Partiers love ‘Atlas Shrugged’?
Posted: 07 June 2010 01:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 61 ]
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Ah yes, the critical thinking example of punctuation or pauses.  “Woman without her man is nothing.” 

Occam

see next post.

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Posted: 07 June 2010 02:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 62 ]
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If the sentence is read with a pause after ‘man’ it means one thing.
If it’s read with the pauses after ‘woman’ and ‘her’ it means the opposite.

Occam

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Posted: 07 June 2010 02:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 63 ]
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Analytic - 04 June 2010 06:30 AM

But then, what can one expect to learn from a harridan.

Straw Man and ad hominum, a twofer!

————————————————————————
I guess its a case of being able to read for content rather than a mere recitation of one’s established beliefs.

..hmm another ad hominum!
If you can’t refute the argument, attack!!! LOL

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Posted: 16 June 2010 06:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 64 ]
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I agree with AS, but it isn’t very well written.  But when considers she was writing in a foreign language, and it’s one of the greatest selling books of all time, I guess that ain’t all that shabby. 
Her essays are more interesting to me if only because they are short and to the point.

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Posted: 16 June 2010 08:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 65 ]
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midnight.train - 26 May 2010 04:24 PM

how many tea partiers actually have the attention span to get through atlas shrugged?

can’t… read… busy hating government…

That thing’s as long as the health care bill…anything could be in it.  big surprise

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Posted: 17 June 2010 03:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 66 ]
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My opinion of Atlas Shrugged has not weakened since my first reading of the book.  She spoke to me and millions of others.  It was a time in my life where television had not been popular.  Many of us fought off the cheap propaganda and insulting series soap operas and certainly the commercials.  I have been a reader since my 4th birthday and I continue to read non stop until my poor eyes have focus problems.  I came from a politically active family and I did not like their choice of parties.  I was horrified at the Birch Society and the racism, homophobia, anti-Semitism and always bringing God into the voter booth. 

Rand made me aware of the propaganda from the government that we were too stupid to think and act for ourselves.  The churches were filling the people with crap that we were weak sinners who could not form our own values.  Rand hit it all!  Reason and Rational values broke through the minds of her readers and her warnings gave us hope that we were intelligent and able to see right from wrong.  It brought many families together to stop degrading members of their own relatives.  Book clubs opened all over Southern California and the disgussions were wild! 

She was absolutely right about the power of the individuals and idea that the government was not equipped to lead us from the crib to the grave.  Sadly Americans have returned to looking to government and God to solve their problems.  I consider myself lucky to have been able to read her books, her essays and meet her in person.  She made me a more responsible mother.  She taught me to form feelings of joy in my growing family.  We made a point of looking for things during the day that gave us the kick found in seeing someing joyful.  We lived in a beautiful part of Old Topanga where a nest of possums had babies in our wine cellar.  What a joy!  We had an Arabian ranch down the hill where their babies were visited daily by my kids on the way to school.  This was an area of earthquakes and massive fire storms.  Every beautiful tree, cabin, areas covered in poppies and lupin became ours to protect. 

Back in the early 60’s when the GOP was forming under the Birch Society and any group who demanded the bible be in every classroom; this movement took on Rand’s writings with horrendous hatred.  She was an Atheist and a free thinker who was able to cut through the progessing collectivism of many people who needed a guide to show them happiness.  It was a load of bullshit so harmful to the Children of America and make them sinners.  Our prisons are now filled with arrogant sinners who tear up everytime a camera enters their cell and plead for forgiveness.  These people did not even read Rand’s books before they tried to ban them from book clubs and schools. 

U.C. Berkeley had hired Dr. Leonard Piekoff as a visiting lecturer in the early 80s and then decided to cancel his lectures.  My younger girl was attending Berkeley at the time and took on the Administration and they found a venue off campus and the lectures continued.  This is the kind of thing that inspires our Universities….even Berkeley.  Dr. Piekoff is the heir for Rand’s huge followers.  His website is very popular. 

What more can I say?

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Posted: 17 June 2010 04:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 67 ]
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Sandy Price - 17 June 2010 03:02 AM

My opinion of Atlas Shrugged has not weakened since my first reading of the book.  She spoke to me and millions of others.  It was a time in my life where television had not been popular.  Many of us fought off the cheap propaganda and insulting series soap operas and certainly the commercials.  I have been a reader since my 4th birthday and I continue to read non stop until my poor eyes have focus problems.  I came from a politically active family and I did not like their choice of parties.  I was horrified at the Birch Society and the racism, homophobia, anti-Semitism and always bringing God into the voter booth. 

Rand made me aware of the propaganda from the government that we were too stupid to think and act for ourselves.  The churches were filling the people with crap that we were weak sinners who could not form our own values.  Rand hit it all!  Reason and Rational values broke through the minds of her readers and her warnings gave us hope that we were intelligent and able to see right from wrong.  It brought many families together to stop degrading members of their own relatives.  Book clubs opened all over Southern California and the disgussions were wild! 

She was absolutely right about the power of the individuals and idea that the government was not equipped to lead us from the crib to the grave.  Sadly Americans have returned to looking to government and God to solve their problems.  I consider myself lucky to have been able to read her books, her essays and meet her in person.  She made me a more responsible mother.  She taught me to form feelings of joy in my growing family.  We made a point of looking for things during the day that gave us the kick found in seeing someing joyful.  We lived in a beautiful part of Old Topanga where a nest of possums had babies in our wine cellar.  What a joy!  We had an Arabian ranch down the hill where their babies were visited daily by my kids on the way to school.  This was an area of earthquakes and massive fire storms.  Every beautiful tree, cabin, areas covered in poppies and lupin became ours to protect. 

Back in the early 60’s when the GOP was forming under the Birch Society and any group who demanded the bible be in every classroom; this movement took on Rand’s writings with horrendous hatred.  She was an Atheist and a free thinker who was able to cut through the progessing collectivism of many people who needed a guide to show them happiness.  It was a load of bullshit so harmful to the Children of America and make them sinners.  Our prisons are now filled with arrogant sinners who tear up everytime a camera enters their cell and plead for forgiveness.  These people did not even read Rand’s books before they tried to ban them from book clubs and schools. 

U.C. Berkeley had hired Dr. Leonard Piekoff as a visiting lecturer in the early 80s and then decided to cancel his lectures.  My younger girl was attending Berkeley at the time and took on the Administration and they found a venue off campus and the lectures continued.  This is the kind of thing that inspires our Universities….even Berkeley.  Dr. Piekoff is the heir for Rand’s huge followers.  His website is very popular. 

What more can I say?

Collectivism is strong in our culture now that most people under the age of 30 it seems, cannot actually contemplate that a demand by ‘you’ does not create an obligation by ‘me’.  The bullshit hasn’t stopped and flows throughout their school day from kindergarten to college.  We have a generation of teachers for the first time, who were raised almost exclusively under the same philosophy—namely that the individual is not master of his/her own future, responsible for him/herself, and that our identity is solely wrapped in whatever victim group we are assigned based on a cadre of “intellectuals” who largely produce nothing and are not accountable for any social changes they encourage or succeed in implementing.

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Posted: 17 June 2010 04:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 68 ]
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Maybe CFI can organize some much needed studies in individualism.  Once we get rid of the “we are sinners” stuff, we might just find some excellent teachers and leaders.

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Posted: 17 June 2010 05:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 69 ]
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Sandy Price - 17 June 2010 04:45 AM

Maybe CFI can organize some much needed studies in individualism.  Once we get rid of the “we are sinners” stuff, we might just find some excellent teachers and leaders.

I dunno. Judging by the posts I’ve read, seems a lot of folks have merely changed from one “god” (Religious) to another “god” (the state, statism, collectivism, social programs, etc).  Individualism used to be such a clear part of the American culture, which I believe is forwarded, as a principle by skepticism.  However, I’ve been stunned at the lack of skepticism by many even on here.  When you have criticism of a sitting president (in a thread either about politics or where someone talks about politics) and the best argument someone else can come up with is that you are a ‘racist’, you’ve already exposed them as a “fundie” of statism, collectivism and identity politics. 

Ay !  Maybe there is no hope. 

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Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick (Democrat):

“It’s a free country; I wish it weren’t, but it’s a free country.” when speaking of a rally on the Capitol.

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Posted: 17 June 2010 05:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 70 ]
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Ulsterscots, criticizing the sitting president is fine as long as you stick to the facts. What we oppose are the ad hominem attacks, cherry picking and vitriol.

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Posted: 17 June 2010 05:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 71 ]
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DarronS - 17 June 2010 05:16 AM

Ulsterscots, criticizing the sitting president is fine as long as you stick to the facts. What we oppose are the ad hominem attacks, cherry picking and vitriol.

Oh no you don’t.  As soon as I posted something negative about Obama, I was attacked (as was the other guy).  What facts have I gotten wrong by the way?  And I’ve no more cherry picked than anyone who ever bashed Bush on here.  Who have I attacked? 

Btw, who’s the “we”?  Other non-skeptics like yourself?

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Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick (Democrat):

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Posted: 17 June 2010 09:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 72 ]
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UlsterScots432 - 17 June 2010 05:24 AM
DarronS - 17 June 2010 05:16 AM

Ulsterscots, criticizing the sitting president is fine as long as you stick to the facts. What we oppose are the ad hominem attacks, cherry picking and vitriol.

Oh no you don’t.  As soon as I posted something negative about Obama, I was attacked (as was the other guy).  What facts have I gotten wrong by the way?  And I’ve no more cherry picked than anyone who ever bashed Bush on here.  Who have I attacked? 

Btw, who’s the “we”?  Other non-skeptics like yourself?

Lol, do you need the definition of ad hominum?? People here have pointed out the facts you have made up…again and again and again.

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Posted: 17 June 2010 04:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 73 ]
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Also the critical thinking fallacy of tu quoque or “you do it too”.  When accused of cherry picking and attacking Obama, the response was -  well, you guys did it to Bush, too.  Maybe so, but it’s irrelevent to whether or not you did it.  Your job is to prove that your attack was based on fact and not cherry picking.

Occam

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Posted: 18 June 2010 04:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 74 ]
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This is a common complaint all over the internet.  Everyone can claim that everything that is wrong, is the fault of the “other party.”  My main complaint is that the GOP has not come up with a rational fix for nearly 20 years.  It is difficult to demand anything from either side without a firm agenda of what can be described as any “fix.”

American politics goes from one Party cleaning up the mess of the previous Administration.  Our entire world is based on emergency actions whether in war or some disaster.  Much of the arguments bring up the lack of regulations in our safety factors in America.  None of us would want to live in a home with faulty plumbing, or dangerous cracks in the foundations but when the home gets a new owner every 8 years without repairs, it will fail. 

Neither government (right or left) looks at American safety as a priority.  We want control over the planet and our wars prove we do not have the stones or brains to accomplish anything.  Trying to look for a fix of anything requires knowledge and an educated voter base.  America has no interest in anything other than killing terrorists.  We even have our own terrorists to organize against our government to keep the control on the right side over the left. 

I have never voted Democrat but my observations show that President Obama has the edge on all others as he can Zero in on the emergencies that need fixing.  I slipped into the LP basically because there was nothing within the GOP or Dems that appealed to my free thinking soul. 

I Googled into the Tea Party organization and found that the new leader is a DUI Lawyer from the bible belt.  It is a “for-profit” group with vitually no agenda of its own.  I need to know the enemy!  The enemy is ignorance.  Anyone familiar with George Orwell can see the end of America clearly.  “Why Orwell Matters” is a book written by Christopher Hitchens that explains much of what is wrong with America.  I have to rely on the writings of others as my own brain has not been programmed to fix anything including my television.  A simple look at all opinions has shown me a complete lack of right over wrong.  Religion has wiped out this vital part of our values and we must return to cleaning up our own values before we throw stones at others. 

Where can we debate and discuss possible fixes for our problems?  We know what’s wrong but where can we discuss what to do about it?

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Posted: 18 June 2010 11:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 75 ]
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UlsterScots432 - 17 June 2010 05:08 AM

I dunno. Judging by the posts I’ve read, seems a lot of folks have merely changed from one “god” (Religious) to another “god” (the state, statism, collectivism, social programs, etc).  Individualism used to be such a clear part of the American culture,

ahh,  That Great American Individual -

But, we are social animals, an organism even.  One that has been procreating and consuming like drunken rats on a ship.
Your individualism works great in the dreams of those cornucopia’s of yesteryear on a planet that seemed without bounds. 
And though we know its not, hey like every spendthrift trustfunder, why worry about it.

In the reality of today that self indulgence is resulting in systematic suicidal behavior ~ such a initiating the grand poisoning of the Gulf of Mexico and never skipping a beat in our desire for ever increasing consumption ~ folks never will get it.  All they will manage is to find scapegoats.

EGO is sooo wunderful

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