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New to the Forum: Singapore mixed marriage: atheist (male) & muslim (female)
Posted: 21 February 2012 01:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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Hi Berkshire,

  First let me say that I seriously question your motives.
 
1.  How is it that you would look for opinions of Muslim Women on a predominantly Atheist website.  Why not go to an Islamic Website.  That way, you could also find out how “Islam leads the way in Science” and other remarkable things.

2.  How is it that you say that you have respect for her religion?  Atheists do not respect religions in general and Islam in particular.  “Respect” for religion is one of the major problems that we are facing.  Respect for religion is a meme that allows people to commit crimes in the name of their religion - crimes that are forbidden in civilized countries.  And remember, in some Muslim countries conversion from Islam to Christianity merits the death penalty.  Islam is a religion that takes you right back to the Dark Ages. 

  If you really do “respect” Islam, then you are either not an Atheist – or you are an atheist who is hopelessly in love.  So you should convert completely to Islam and embrace it with all your heart and soul.

TT.

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Religions that demand respect the most - are the religions that merit respect the least.
If you are offended by attacks on your religion, then your religion has programmed you well.

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Posted: 21 February 2012 03:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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TT, are you merely deliberately trying to stir things up or are you always a contrarian? You do realize this thread is almost two years old, don’t you?

[ Edited: 21 February 2012 03:57 PM by DarronS ]
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Posted: 21 February 2012 07:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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Yes and Yes - sometimes.  But in this case I got a significant blood pressure rise when I hear people “respecting” religion.  I did not note the date of the original post.

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If your belief is true, the data will confirm it.  If your belief is false, then you need faith to believe it.
Religions that demand respect the most - are the religions that merit respect the least.
If you are offended by attacks on your religion, then your religion has programmed you well.

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Posted: 21 February 2012 07:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Ted Tyler - 21 February 2012 07:02 PM

Yes and Yes - sometimes.  But in this case I got a significant blood pressure rise when I hear people “respecting” religion.  I did not note the date of the original post.

OK. As long as you’re up front about stirring things up and being a contrarian I can live with that. Lord knows I’ve caused a few storms around here. No problem on the date of the post. We’ve all replied to old threads occasionally.

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Posted: 21 February 2012 09:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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TT
2.  How is it that you say that you have respect for her religion?  Atheists do not respect religions in general and Islam in particular.  “Respect” for religion is one of the major problems that we are facing.  Respect for religion is a meme that allows people to commit crimes in the name of their religion - crimes that are forbidden in civilized countries.  And remember, in some Muslim countries conversion from Islam to Christianity merits the death penalty.  Islam is a religion that takes you right back to the Dark Ages.

There is a certain dishonesty about that statement, IMO . It is true atheists are generally opposed to the imposition of religions. But a better viewpoint IMO, would be to judge people indiviuadlly and not lump all Muslims or Christians for that matter, as living in the Dark Ages. Blame the religion, not the individual, unless they actually show a rejection of all other civilized behavior in favor of fundamentalist adherence to an exclusive way of thinking. I do not have respect for any religion, but I do have respect for some religious people.
I don’t think that one could say that Mother Theresa or Dr Livingstone or Albert Schweitzer would have condoned anyone to commit crimes in the name of their religion.

[ Edited: 21 February 2012 09:15 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 22 February 2012 06:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Hi Berkshire2,

Darron, Thanks for pointing out that the original post was about 2 years old.  From now I will always check out the posting date – since I am interested in getting the thoughts of the original guy that made the post.  After two years in a Muslim country – he could very well be dead!  Let’s check out the time line on the posts and try to see what happened:

I will make quick TT summaries of all of the posts – which hopefully will capture the main ideas. 

Day 1:  Posts from 26 May 2010

Berkshire – I’m going with this Muslim girl so I am now checking out your Atheist Website to:  “I’d like to get some different views and especially from Muslim women who have found themselves in a similar situation”.

CFI immediately responds: 

1.  Dougsmith:  Welcome.  Be Honest.  Remember, this could be for the long term.
2.  Mriana:  Welcome, but to play along to get along - may end up in misery.
3.  Dead Monkey:  Talk about it, explain your thoughts, try to come to a consensus.
4.  Occam:  Marriage is tough under the best of circumstances. Get a new girlfriend.
5.  African Shumba:  Islam is tough.  Convert completely or get a new girlfriend.

So in the first day, we have 5 helpful, supportive posts from CFI.

Day 2:  Posts from 27 May 2010

1.  Asanta:  Can you live with Islam and having your kids be Muslims?  Remember, being an apostate in a Muslim country could get you killed.
2.  DarronS:  Your girlfriend is in love with the person she wants you to become – and this may not be you at all!  Try to find someone who will accept you as you are.

  So at this point we have seven good responses from CFI.  Now is the time for Berkshire to respond to the advice – and he does not.  As a matter of fact, the only posting that Berkshire ever made was his initial post. 

Month 1.5-1.7

1.  SpacyCheese:  People do strange things when in love.
2.  Singapore Atheist:  My wife is sad about not going to Church anymore.  You can have difficult relationships with religious relatives.

3.  Orphelia Benson:  Apostasy is a capital crime.  Check out Ibn Warraq posts for advice.

Month 10

1.  maksim – Welcome to the CFI forum.  (Looks like maksim also did not look at the posting dates)

Month 11

1.  Naikaidiver: – We were in love – but I could not accept her religion and she could not turn her back on her religion and her family.  We parted.
2.  Dougsmith:  You made the correct decision.

_______________________________________________________

And now – like almost 2 years after the original post miminoamoa_jack resurrects these ancient posts to say effectively:

27 Jan 2012:  Can you really be happy with each other? Perhaps you should break up.

Then, thinking that this is a recent post, chiangalice contributes:

30 Jan 2012:  Her family will not accept a non-muslim groom.  One of you will have to abandon your religion.  Give this serious thought.

______________________________________________________


Then I (Ted) comes along and – thinking that all the posts are recent – attempts to probe the soul of Berkshire - as it appears that Berkshire could be making a mistake that could plunge his life into misery and possibly cost him his life.  My approach is to challenge him:

  “…I seriously question you motives”.

  This should have been a red flag.  And if Berkshire was still alive – he should have respondedt.  If Berkshire responded, then we could have made progress in determining what his true feelings were, what his situation was, and how we could best proceed to help him with his problem.

  The fact that Berkshire never responded – never gave CFI a “Thank you” email – supports my guess that the motives of Berkshire were in question.
____________________________________________________________

  Although I do not respect religions based on superstitions, I do respect many of the deeply religious people who have given their lives in service to others and those who have had the courage to challenge the system.  For me, this includes Martin Luther, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, David Livingstone, and Albert Schweitzer. 

Note:  My general approach is to overstate my case.  Do so in clear language that is easy to understand.  Post it.  See what comes back.  And then hope to get closer to reality with the help of the inputs from the replies.

TT.

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If your belief is true, the data will confirm it.  If your belief is false, then you need faith to believe it.
Religions that demand respect the most - are the religions that merit respect the least.
If you are offended by attacks on your religion, then your religion has programmed you well.

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Posted: 22 February 2012 07:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Sounds like workable plan. Don’t worrysomething that we can get our teeth into will come along soon enough.. cheese

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Posted: 10 March 2012 09:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Howdy

The problem that I see is that your conversion would not be a genuine, honest conversion.  There is a difference between respecting a religion and believing in a religion.  Just as there is a difference between respecting your girlfriend and respecting her religion.  If you do not honestly believe in the religion and marry the girl, then the marriage would start on a dishonest conversion.  Then there is the possible future problem of children and the beliefs they would follow.  I strongly agree that you should have a discussion with your girlfriend before you marry her. 

It is my understanding that it is okay for a christian or even a jewish man to marry a muslim woman, but it is not okay for a muslim woman to marry an atheist.  I am quite sure that her parents, if they are Muslims would not be pleased if their daughter married an atheist It is my understanding that Singapore is a secular and religiously pluralistic country so that may not be much of a problem.

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