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Survey shows enormous upswing in percentage of men accepting of gays & lesbians
Posted: 08 June 2010 06:28 PM   [ Ignore ]
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NY Times opinion article by Charles M. Blow over the weekend
“Gay? Whatever, Dude”  Saturday June 4, 2010 Op-Ed by Charles Blow

Although the information is basically good news,  I was struck by the claim by a Gallup survey that

the percentage of men ages 18 to 49 who perceived these
“relations” as morally acceptable rose by 48 percent,
and among men over 50, it rose by 26 percent.

This seems statistically unlikely without all of us having a clear reason to think this—-
Blow has 3 hypotheses but to me a more likely one is that there is something wrong with the data
(like my skepticism with Ecklund getting a response rate of 75% on her survey—there has to be more to the story, and part of it was
she enclosed money to those she sent inquiries to).

So the question to the forum is whether there is something would cause this that one might verify….
or whether people have read about it elsewhere and know more about the survey.

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Posted: 08 June 2010 08:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Do you think they may be confusing the words ‘by’ and ‘to’?

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Posted: 09 June 2010 12:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Well, let’s see.  Assume that the number of men 18 to 49 that felt gay relations were acceptable had been 10% in a prior poll.  If it raised by 48% (of the 10%) the new acceptance would be 14.8%.  Far more ethical and precise to list the actual percentage along with the sample size, composition, and specific questions and ocnditions of the pole, rather than just saying how much the percentage rose.

Occam

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Posted: 09 June 2010 02:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Occam - 09 June 2010 12:07 AM

Well, let’s see.  Assume that the number of men 18 to 49 that felt gay relations were acceptable had been 10% in a prior poll.  If it raised by 48% (of the 10%) the new acceptance would be 14.8%.  Far more ethical and precise to list the actual percentage along with the sample size, composition, and specific questions and ocnditions of the pole, rather than just saying how much the percentage rose.

Occam

I’ll see if I can locate the sample size—article says it was done by Gallup. The charts do show the actual percentage so it is not just growth from a small base. But Occam is 100% right—that is one way to come up with a misleading description.  The thing that was emphasized was that now a majority of men now accept gays & lesbians - in fact, more than women. 
06blowimg-articleInline.jpg

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Posted: 09 June 2010 08:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Thanks for the reminder Occam! I should have thought of the book, How to Lie with Statistics!

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Posted: 09 June 2010 03:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Although the poll included gay men and lesbians, for some reason lesbians are far less noticed or considered than gay men.  This is probably the reason that acceptance went up among males and down among females.  Heterosexual males saw gayness as a reduction in the competition pool for women’s attentions, and heterosexual women saw it as a reduction in the available male pool.  LOL

Occam

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Posted: 17 June 2010 05:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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We can only hope that percentage goes up.  Stressing individual rights and choices at an early age would most likely increase the upswing. 

Still wish they actually TAUGHT critical thinking in elementary school.  It breaks my heart that instead of getting kids to actually “think” for themselves, they are teaching them chants about Obama (yes, it is relevant to mention this).  We don’t need any more drones, for any party or position. 

It is my hope that someday gay people will be able to get married in every state and have the same choices in family planning without discrimination.

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“It’s a free country; I wish it weren’t, but it’s a free country.” when speaking of a rally on the Capitol.

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Posted: 18 June 2010 02:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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It is my hope that someday gay people will be able to get married in every state and have the same choices in family planning without discrimination.

Aren’t you worried about the inevitable earthquakes, rain of fire and brimstone, and swarms of dinosaur riding Nazis that will create?

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Posted: 18 June 2010 04:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Nah, those won’t happen.  The opponents have claimed it would destroy marriage, and that’s what I figure it will do.  As soon as straight guy and gals realize they don’t have to have a heterosexual relationship to get married, they’ll all stop doing that and all of them will marry a member of their own sex so they’ll have someone who understands them.  LOL

Occam

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Posted: 18 June 2010 06:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Dead Monky - 18 June 2010 02:35 PM

It is my hope that someday gay people will be able to get married in every state and have the same choices in family planning without discrimination.

Aren’t you worried about the inevitable earthquakes, rain of fire and brimstone, and swarms of dinosaur riding Nazis that will create?

When I hear a guy like Dobson claim that gay marriage will destroy hetero marriage, I just want someone, somewhere once, to challenge him logically (not the whole “you hate gays” stuff).  How about the fact that we heteros divorce and remarry all the time, have broken marriages, abuse, children of divorce, cheating, all that.  Is it his view that gay marriage is what’s going to finally ‘do us in’?  Those claims are completely absurd.

And as a side note, we in the father’s rights movement are watching gay-marriage very closely (esp lesbian), as it has changed the paradigm regarding child custody, and to a lesser extent child support and alimony.  Since we can’t get the courts to treat us equally as fathers when it comes to custody, it’s been interesting to watch lesbians basically verify what we’ve been saying all along: some women use children as weapons, and the child support system as a tool to destroy fathers.  There’s been a few recent cases, high profile, involving claims of abuse (phony), hiding the child, etc.  The whole bit.  We believe the courts will realize what kind of damage has been done to the children of such “situations.”  It will “normalize” the argument and take the gender issue out of it.  Which is probably going to be more helpful in the long run, for all parents’ rights. 

Even if none of that were true, gay marriage should be just as lawful for gays as for any of us straights.  It’s a personal choice, a personal contract, and involves individual rights to exercise free association in the most intimate way.  Why should anyone stop that? 

Why would anyone want to prevent someone else from being happy?

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Posted: 21 June 2010 10:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Why would anyone want to prevent someone else from being happy?

People are dicks.

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Posted: 24 June 2010 06:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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So there was this guy in a football lineup. Dressed up and ready to “FOOTBALL!” Except he was wearing a motorcycle helmet. Sure, he may feel like it is getting the job done.  But the fact is, he’s doing it wrong.

[ Edited: 24 June 2010 06:42 PM by Stormy Fairweather ]
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Posted: 24 June 2010 10:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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If he’s not playing with my ball or on my field, I shouldn’t care whether he’s using different equipment. 

Occam

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Posted: 24 June 2010 10:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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`
I don’t know anything more about the specific poll in question, but if you look across the board, it seems that acceptance of gays/lesbians/same-sex marriage has risen quite substantially over the last decade or so.

If we look at the votes for anti-same-sex marriage propositions in California:  In 2000, Proposition 22 (which was to keep marriage between heteros only) passed with a vote of 61.4% to 38%.  Only 7 years later, Prop 8 passed with a vote of 52.47% with 47.53% against.  That’s a pretty big change, from a difference of 23% between the 2 sides to a difference of less than 5%.

Needless to say, that’s merely one example, but there definitely seems to be a positive overall change over the last few years…...let’s hope it continues :)


`

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Posted: 24 June 2010 10:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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So those that purport to support tolerance of all things are pretty intolerant of intolerance.

Whereas those that hate without reason certainly are not justified, at least they are not self-contradictory.

My stance is that we should not tolerate incompetance or the willful harming of another of our species.

And at the very least, having sex with a member of the same sex seems pretty incompetant to me.

I mean, what if everyone did it that way?

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Posted: 24 June 2010 11:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Stormy Fairweather - 24 June 2010 10:53 PM

My stance is that we should not tolerate incompetance or the willful harming of another of our species.

And at the very least, having sex with a member of the same sex seems pretty incompetant to me.

I mean, what if everyone did it that way?


`
First of all, not tolerating the wilful harming of another human seems obvious enough…....but not tolerating ‘incompetence’?  and by ‘not tolerating’, do you suggest that this has the force of law in some way?

Secondly, why ask ‘what if everyone did it that way’?  It’s a completely irrelevant/nonsensical question.  The entire world will never be ALL homosexual, so what’s your point there?

Also, having sex with a member of the same sex might strike you as being uh ‘incompetent’, but trust me, it’s most definitely NOT for the 2 people involved :) (barring any ‘technique’ issues! :)

`

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