Conscientious Objector Pleas Evolve

By TAMAR LEWIN
July 16, 2010
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/18/us/18conscientious.html

WASHINGTON - Answering the G.I. Rights Hotline for the last 11 years, J. E. McNeil has counseled thousands of soldiers who want to become conscientious objectors and get out of the service.

But when the House of Representatives voted May 27 to allow the repeal of the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy, paving the way for gay men and lesbians in the military to be open about their sexual orientation, Ms. McNeil got a hot-line call that raised a new issue: the caller said he considered homosexuality an abomination and wanted to be a conscientious objector because he could not serve in the military alongside gay soldiers. . . .

Is the army forcing him to take part in homosexual acts? Or is he just upset that others fighting along side him participates in activities he doesn’t like. Can you be a conscientious objector for reasons such as “The guy next to me likes to eat pork, but I’m not suppose to eat pork.” “The guy next to me likes to drink alcohol, but I don’t like alcohol.” “The guy next to me likes country music, but that’s an abomination to real music.” “The guy next to me has dark skin, I don’t like the idea that dark skin people can carry guns.” “The guy next to me likes pre-marital sex, but I think that’s immoral.”

Aside from my feelings that the guy is a prick, I don’t think the guy even has a case to stand on. I don’t think you can be a conscientious objector for what OTHER people do… rather only against actions that the government is requiring YOU to do.  “I object to you making me eat pork; I object to you making me kill others; I object to you making me have pre-marital sex, etc”

KurtJ - 18 July 2010 01:25 PM

Is the army forcing him to take part in homosexual acts? Or is he just upset that others fighting along side him participates in activities he doesn’t like. Can you be a conscientious objector for reasons such as “The guy next to me likes to eat pork, but I’m not suppose to eat pork.” “The guy next to me likes to drink alcohol, but I don’t like alcohol.” “The guy next to me likes country music, but that’s an abomination to real music.” “The guy next to me has dark skin, I don’t like the idea that dark skin people can carry guns.” “The guy next to me likes pre-marital sex, but I think that’s immoral.”

Aside from my feelings that the guy is a prick, I don’t think the guy even has a case to stand on. I don’t think you can be a conscientious objector for what OTHER people do… rather only against actions that the government is requiring YOU to do.  “I object to you making me eat pork; I object to you making me kill others; I object to you making me have pre-marital sex, etc”

`
I think you’ve summed it all up nicely there.

This is one more example of some people trying to peddle the disingenuous ‘what others do in their private life has a negative impact on ME!’ nonsense.  Yet again, the objection against homosexuals boils down to:  ‘I refuse to belong to this country club if they’re going to let ‘those people’ join too.’

Are we going to see atheist soldiers attempt the ‘conscientious objector’ thing too because they don’t want to fight alongside Christians or Jews?  It would be utterly ridiculous, as is this.

`

Or, “I just can’t stand those nasty hetero [homo] sexual soldiers putting up pictures of Playboy [Playgirl] centerfolds by their beds.” 

Occam

josh_karpf - 18 July 2010 01:12 PM

.... Ms. McNeil got a hot-line call that raised a new issue: the caller said he considered homosexuality an abomination and wanted to be a conscientious objector because he could not serve in the military alongside gay soldiers. . . .

He is already serving in the military alongside gay soldiers. He just wants to keep his head in the sand—his fingers in his ears, eyes closed—and continue to say lalalalala, you can’t make me acknowledge it!

asanta - 18 July 2010 06:40 PM

josh_karpf - 18 July 2010 01:12 PM

.... Ms. McNeil got a hot-line call that raised a new issue: the caller said he considered homosexuality an abomination and wanted to be a conscientious objector because he could not serve in the military alongside gay soldiers. . . .

He is already serving in the military alongside gay soldiers. He just wants to keep his head in the sand—his fingers in his ears, eyes closed—and continue to say lalalalala, you can’t make me acknowledge it!

`
I think another big part of it (given the things i’ve heard/read in other conversations) is that DADT being repealed would mean that the military would then be treating homosexuals *gasp* just like any other soldier.  Not having a ‘special’ category for gay people would mean they’re being treated as ‘normal’ ~ which translates to: they’re being accepted instead of ostracized.

A lot of them reeeeeeeally hate that.

`

josh_karpf - 18 July 2010 01:12 PM

WASHINGTON - Answering the G.I. Rights Hotline for the last 11 years, J. E. McNeil has counseled thousands of soldiers who want to become conscientious objectors and get out of the service.

I’m confused, don’t we have a volunteer military these days? 
Why would someone join the armed forces if they feel themselves to be “conscientious objectors?” 
Or, is that something that develops as boot camp evolves into actual military service?

Furthermore:

asanta - 18 July 2010 06:40 PM

He is already serving in the military alongside gay soldiers. He just wants to keep his head in the sand—his fingers in his ears, eyes closed—and continue to say lalalalala, you can’t make me acknowledge it!

Rachel Maddow’s team dug up some historical documents showing polls of servicemen regarding an integrated military (including Jews). Only seven percent of the serving military accepted the equality of blacks and Jews. Ninety three percent did not want to eat or have anything to do with either a black man or Jew in the military. Truman said “Do it!” and it was done. My dad served in the late 40s, through the 50s and most of the 60s. I remember my dad and mom having white military friends in the 50s, and my dad coaching a very successful (white) woman’s baseball team (of course my mom and another black friend were also on the team) in the early 60s—something I never thought of as remarkable until very recently. When he was too ill with heart disease and arthritis to play, he coached a military mens basketball team for years before retiring. The attitudes toward gays are nowhere near as entrenched as the attitude against blacks and Jews in the Military. The only obstacle is the reaction and power of the religious wrong. 

citizenschallenge - 23 July 2010 11:08 AM

I’m confused, don’t we have a volunteer military these days? 
Why would someone join the armed forces if they feel themselves to be “conscientious objectors?” 
Or, is that something that develops as boot camp evolves into actual military service?

Yes.

It varies.  People sometimes change their minds.  Some have religious experiences and become pacifists; that’s pretty rare in actuality.  Some become disenfranchized with the military.  Some develop PTSD-related problems and legitimately have mental health reasons to avoid combat.