3 of 7
3
Alexander Zaitchik - Glenn Beck’s War on Reason
Posted: 16 August 2010 10:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
Jr. Member
Rank
Total Posts:  9
Joined  2010-08-16
asanta - 16 August 2010 10:17 PM
templarboy - 16 August 2010 09:50 PM

Being new here and not knowing what to expect, I find exactly what I predicted-politics is not easily argued without someone calling another poster “stupid” and one side and the other declaring their “truths” superior to their oppositions “truths”. All I have read reminds me of a religious argument. Are both sides willing to admit that their judgement is just as clouded as their oppositions?  I counted about 10 logical fallacies in the first page alone. Logical fallacies used to accuse others of logical fallacies. Nice work folks. Guess I should have lurked for a few more weeks until this garbage fell off the forum.

I’m glad you could look at a small sampling of the forum and extrapolate to the entire forum. grin We certainly wouldn’t want to keep someone here who didn’t feel they belonged. I’m sure the rest of the forum will be just as uninteresting and full of logical fallacies. It couldn’t possibly be a case of anomalous bickering among members (half of them new). Of course as the only libertarian here…(not)
BTW, I listen to Brian Dunning’s podcast too, libertarians aren’t his only fans. wink
Thanks for reading!

Wow. What polite internet bullying? Your post count is indeed larger than mine. I was hoping to increase mine fairly quickly. On to my post, I did not state I was the only libertarian here. If this thread is indeed anomalous, then I will surely apologize.  I have read just a few threads and I have seen quite a bit of irrational attacks flying both ways. Mostly dealing with politics. Is my plea for an apolitical movement invalid or are you just going to call me a n00b next?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 August 2010 10:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3063
Joined  2010-04-26

You can never completely divorce politics from a subject.

 Signature 

“In the end nature is horrific and teaches us nothing.” -Mutual of Omicron

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 August 2010 10:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
Jr. Member
Rank
Total Posts:  9
Joined  2010-08-16
Dead Monky - 16 August 2010 10:50 PM

You can never completely divorce politics from a subject.

I do fear that you are correct.  Is it okay to be sad about it?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 August 2010 10:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3063
Joined  2010-04-26

Sure.  You can even mask it with something.  I prefer a sardonic demeanor and faux nihilism.

 Signature 

“In the end nature is horrific and teaches us nothing.” -Mutual of Omicron

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 August 2010 11:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7684
Joined  2008-04-11
templarboy - 16 August 2010 10:41 PM

Wow. What polite internet bullying? Your post count is indeed larger than mine. I was hoping to increase mine fairly quickly. On to my post, I did not state I was the only libertarian here. If this thread is indeed anomalous, then I will surely apologize.  I have read just a few threads and I have seen quite a bit of irrational attacks flying both ways. Mostly dealing with politics. Is my plea for an apolitical movement invalid or are you just going to call me a n00b next?

Nope! smile Just trying to discourage a rush to judgment. I don’t think you can find a political discussion anywhere, without differences of opinion. Unless of course we were one of those forums who banned anyone with an opinion! But we aren’t so…we bicker sometimes, and either we change minds..or agree to disagree. Most of us who have been around awhile know the political positions of others, and know when to just leave it alone, or if it is truly egregious, to call them on it. The only time things really tend to get interesting, is when when we get a theist trying to convince us of the error of our ways…or in the free will thread (personally, I wouldn’t go in there to save a small child!). Some of the threads are lighthearted bantering among friends.
Meanwhile, do stick around awhile, don’t judge the forum by just one sliver of a thread, you may just be able to teach us something… or visa versa! wink

 Signature 

Church; where sheep congregate to worship a zombie on a stick that turns into a cracker on Sundays…

Profile
 
 
Posted: 17 August 2010 03:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
Jr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  85
Joined  2009-05-28

If you want to address Glenn Beck on Point of Inquiry for errors in logic, I think it is a stretch, but maybe I could buy it. But if you are using that as an excuse, dammit, address his logic. Don’t sound like a bunch of school children in the playground attacking an outcast, or a bunch of liberals having a snob paroxysm. And if we are going to get into violations of logic among the politically motivated, how about starting with liberalism – like maybe right at the root – the historical and philosophical foundation of the movement in the tabula rasa theory, and the belief in the improbability of human nature. The wreckage of that notion has been addressed on Point. How about looking at the implications for liberalism?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 17 August 2010 08:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
Jr. Member
Avatar
Rank
Total Posts:  7
Joined  2010-06-04

Just heard the interview.  Very interesting and entertaining.  Thanks.  It gave me a new perspective on Beck.  I have to admit that I’ve been fascinated by him ever since my wife’s 98 year old grandmother told me a few years ago that she was really fond of the man (in most other respects, she’s quite a sharp woman, especially for someone of 98).  I even recently picked up his book “Common Sense” (from the library…I wouldn’t waste my money supporting him).  I must admit that this man is highly intelligent.  I completely agree with Alexander Zaitchik that this man knows exactly what he is doing and how to rile up his base.

So, onto the book.  The book was completely fact free and all emotion.  The thesis of the book is:  “you (the reader) are undergoing some tough times financially and this is because there are corrupt people in Washington who don’t care about the people they are governing and only want power.  They need to be stopped.”

The beauty of this idea is that it is simple and 95% of the country will agree with the first part (financial tough times).  Most will agree that there at least some corruption in Washington, and from there it is easy to make a leap they are the cause of your financial problems.  And once you buy into that, must agree that they need to be stopped.  No facts are needed to back this up because it is “Common Sense”.

This man is so scary to me because he is able to see into your deepest fears and weaknesses and direct them towards his own goals.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 18 August 2010 03:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
Jr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  85
Joined  2009-05-28

If he says there are corrupt people in power in Washington, he is making an understatement. Any disagreement here? Anyone believe they care at all about the well being of the American people or the future of this country? They claim they can fix our economic problems because they are wise and concerned. I don’t think it is such a stretch to suspect they may be causing many of them if they are actually corrupt and self-interested.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 18 August 2010 07:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
Jr. Member
Avatar
Rank
Total Posts:  7
Joined  2010-06-04

@rg21:

That’s my point.  He identifies problems that no one could argue with.  These are problems that are so general that they are almost tautological (eg- there are corrupt politicians who don’t care about the people they were elected to serve).  But the solutions he describes are so outlandish, but so many people are willing to agree with him because of the way he presents the problem.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 18 August 2010 09:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7684
Joined  2008-04-11
rg21 - 18 August 2010 03:55 AM

If he says there are corrupt people in power in Washington, he is making an understatement. Any disagreement here? Anyone believe they care at all about the well being of the American people or the future of this country? They claim they can fix our economic problems because they are wise and concerned. I don’t think it is such a stretch to suspect they may be causing many of them if they are actually corrupt and self-interested.

rg21, corruption and Washington are like hand and glove. It always has been and always will be. Just look at history. Meanwhile, would you rather live in a country like Afghanistan or Iraq? Is there another country you would prefer to move to? We still manage to get things done, while Washington is no more, and no less corrupt than it has ever been. Meanwhile, more people immigrate to our shores than anywhere else on earth. We are still doing something right.

 Signature 

Church; where sheep congregate to worship a zombie on a stick that turns into a cracker on Sundays…

Profile
 
 
Posted: 18 August 2010 03:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
Jr. Member
Rank
Total Posts:  12
Joined  2010-02-13

Politically I’m a leftist; lots of whom (as opposed to liberals) just find Beck to be pretty funny and that’s about it.  But he scares me; I have lived in parts of the country where they take people like him and their ideas quite seriously, no matter how half-baked or badly-thought-out their rants are.  Maybe I’m saying most Americans just don’t have the critical thinking skills they should?

Indigo

Profile
 
 
Posted: 18 August 2010 03:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3063
Joined  2010-04-26

A lot of the conservatives I know think Beck is a raving loon just as much as the liberals I know do.

 Signature 

“In the end nature is horrific and teaches us nothing.” -Mutual of Omicron

Profile
 
 
Posted: 18 August 2010 04:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
Jr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  51
Joined  2010-08-02

Most libertarians want nothing to do with him either.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 18 August 2010 06:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4400
Joined  2010-08-15
Old Hoplite - 15 August 2010 07:28 AM

In the last few casts everytime a conservative, Republican of President Bush is mentioned it is not to examine thier claims, investage where they might be right or wrong but rather to launch personal attacks; most of which seem to be merely: “They don’t agree with me, therefore they must be stupid and evil.”

Let’s investigate Republicans and Bush in particular.
Why do lefties hate Bush so much - well I for one don’t need to look much further than the massive privatizing of our military and the insanity that was started in Iraq - { rather than focus on the real prize - getting Osama bin-ass hole guy.}.  Instead, thanks to the insane Republican (well ok and yes Democratic too) love of arms sales - and their attendant use - we have become committed on a hopeless, endlessly downhill slope into non-stop wars and escalating violence & grief.

In the process Cheney and Bush turned out to be Osama bin Ladens greatest booster, now his organization is bigger and stronger and more hate filled than ever.  Thatta boy, you flag waving war lovers.  Great Job.

This only leaves about another dozen categories in which the Bush administration has helped irreparably damaged our country and kinda, sorta doom the future.

And before you hit me with President Obama jazz - given that the Republican strategy is to do everything within its power to undermine him regardless - it doesn’t leave much hope for his chances of turning anything around.

 Signature 

We need each other, to keep ourselves honest

Profile
 
 
Posted: 18 August 2010 06:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4400
Joined  2010-08-15
rg21 - 17 August 2010 03:44 AM

if we are going to get into violations of logic among the politically motivated, how about starting with liberalism – like maybe right at the root –

You mean like the founding of our country?

 Signature 

We need each other, to keep ourselves honest

Profile
 
 
   
3 of 7
3