asanta - 22 September 2010 04:55 PM

Gnostikosis - 22 September 2010 05:31 AM

Ok, if I believe marrage can only be between a man and a women and the state passes a law which allows same-sex marriage. I further believe that God will punish us for allowing same-sex marriage don’t you think it’s likely I’ll worry about it?

Then I can justify my belief that a woman can only be educated to the point of literacy, say 6th grade. And that they must be married before their first menses, and that the father has complete control over who his daughter marries to the point of making it legal for him to kill her for not obeying his wishes.  Furthermore, she may not drive, nor can she leave the home unless accompanied by an adult (over the age of 13) related male. And she can be killed for talking to an unrelated male. Her testimony is no accepted in court against a male, unless she has 10 witnesses. My god insists on this and will punish the world if these laws are not followed.

And this is not even the worst of the religions out there. On cult leader made it mandatory that all girls sleep with him, including his own daughters. Another wouldn’t let the children eat. Another starved a toddler because he could not say ‘amen’.

Of course you can. That’s what they do. If they couldn’t justify it they wouldn’t do it.

What is the difference. Where do we stop.

I don’t know where you stop. Where I stop is when I recognize what they believe doesn’t affect me.

..or we follow Constitutional Law and keep church and state strictly separated.

Tijani - 27 September 2010 12:14 AM

I must admit that’s the way I sometimes feel, I have no offspring and no reason to hope the human race carries on when I’m gone, why should I?
Should I worry about a nuclear holocaust the day after I die? I don’t think so.”

[Edited to remove linkspam. Sorry, but the person you were responding to was a spammer that we missed. Account is deleted. dougsmith—Admin]                                               
Call me selfish (I’ve been called much worse) but why would I spend time worrying about something over which I have no control?

If you had the power to annihilate everyone except yourself, painlessly, would you do it?

An administrator’s work is never done…

asanta - 18 November 2010 03:05 PM

An administrator’s work is never done…

So long as there are spammers about, you’re right!

Gnostikosis - 22 September 2010 05:31 AM

Jackson - 21 September 2010 07:52 PM

Gnostikosis - 21 September 2010 02:20 PM

George - 21 September 2010 01:32 PM

I don’t know. I get lost with all these “should” and “shouldn’t.”

Depends on whether you recognize what does and doesn’t affect you. If something doesn’t really affect you why “should” you worry about it?

It’s kind of hard to generalize—it depends on the “what”.  There must be examples which are obvious, and other which are gray areas. We can agree this is more gray than some and less grey than others.

Ok, if I believe marrage can only be between a man and a women and the state passes a law which allows same-sex marriage. I further believe that God will punish us for allowing same-sex marriage don’t you think it’s likely I’ll worry about it?

Gnost, here a person would be treading a fine line. The assumption that God would punish you for what other people do, and therefore you are obligated to worry (do something) about it, is wholly false. In such a case “you” have become the judge, not God. This is the stuff of the Crusades or Jihad.

defensive driving course in Edmonton - 30 January 2011 09:06 PM

i agree with your thinking

Speak of the devil….

Mriana caught that one. 

Occam

Jackson - 21 September 2010 02:27 PM

Gnostikosis - 21 September 2010 11:34 AM

If one freely chooses to accept the authority of a religion they should be able to. No one should tell them they can’t.

How about telling thing them they shouldn’t. They obviously can if they want to.

Sorry I didn’t back to some of the interesting comments here earlier….

You do as you feel is right and appropriate. I would likely tell them I wouldn’t and why. I never told my kids they shouldn’t get involved in religion. I just told them of my experiences and my opinions and also told them they would have to make their own decision about this stuff.

None of them got involved in religion, however it wouldn’t have bothered me if they did as long as in in every respect they took responsibility for their actions.

Though since this thread I find myself a little incredulous at the actual ability of religion to influence people to do stupid things. Politics as well I suppose. The dogma of religion or some political ideology never seem an excused to do something stupid.

I always thought some of the dumber ideas and actions they required would be more obvious to more people. At least if you pointed out in a reasonable rational manner how silly the idea was. It’s hard to accept the prevalence of the gullibility required for religion to find support.

Write4U - 21 November 2010 02:56 PM

Gnost, here a person would be treading a fine line. The assumption that God would punish you for what other people do, and therefore you are obligated to worry (do something) about it, is wholly false. In such a case “you” have become the judge, not God. This is the stuff of the Crusades or Jihad.

That was kind of my point, I think… it’s been a while. 

If you individually can isolate yourself from the idea that what someone Else’s believes is going to cause you or anyone else harm then there is no reason to care what they believe. 

Say I’m a Christian who thinks Gays are going to hell. Their going to hell doesn’t harm me. It’s a choice they made will be accountable for that choice if there is any accountability to be had. Therefore I treat them equally to any other individual I meet. I rent property to them I afford them equal rights as any citizen.

What does it matter that I believe they will suffer in hell for their actions if I never treat them different then any other individual?

The point I was trying to make is that my actions are what matters not my belief.

asanta - 22 September 2010 06:27 PM

..or we follow Constitutional Law and keep church and state strictly separated.

Which is fine. Everyone is already accountable to our system of law. That law shouldn’t care about what someone individually believes, only if they act in some manner against the law.