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Jerry Coyne - CFI Declares War On Atheist
Posted: 08 October 2010 12:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 76 ]
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asanta - 08 October 2010 08:50 AM
Write4U - 07 October 2010 10:02 PM

Question: What is the pitch and timbre of god’s voice?.

Because ‘god’ is a supernatural being, he can pitch his voice anyway he likes, he would most likely construct ‘his’ voice in a manner most ‘comforting’ to the person he is communicating with.
That is not a good question. Any theist can construct an answer such as the one I just gave, to explain why ‘god’ sounds different to every listener. smirk

Just with these few sentences we have made communication with god a relativistic experience.  A thundering voice, a whisper, an animal scurrying, an eagle soaring, a mother holding a newborn baby, have just become aceptable communication with god. Thus god speaks differently to all of us?  If I can get a theist to admit that, I have achieved a victory over ignorance.
A single identifiable voice would have been a miracle and “supernatural”. Prove it!  A relativistic, natural experience can be explained by science and should be. We already have the proof.

[ Edited: 08 October 2010 12:32 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 08 October 2010 12:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 77 ]
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Gnostikosis - 08 October 2010 10:57 AM
Write4U - 07 October 2010 10:02 PM

Question: What is the pitch and timbre of god’s voice?
Presumably this could be verified by those theists who “hear” the voice of god, but if this voice proved to be a subjective experience and differed from person to person, that might empower people to think for themselves as to the meaning of a relativistic experience and not blindly accept what they perceive, but question the reliability of that “supernatural” experience, and contemplate on this “internal conversation” (at several levels of the brain processes).

Not everyone who has one of these “supernatural” experiences hears a voice. So I’m just trying to get away from the assumption that an “internal conversation” is necessarily a part of the experience.

Same answer as above.

Any personal experience is an internal conversation.

[ Edited: 08 October 2010 12:30 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 08 October 2010 01:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 78 ]
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Write4U - 08 October 2010 12:15 PM

Same answer as above.

Any personal experience is an internal conversation.

Ok sure, one’s perception of reality is a personal experience. Me having this conversation with you boils down to an internal conversation. If that is what you are saying I have no problem with it.

Our perception of reality is an internal experience. How does that answer the God issue?

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Posted: 08 October 2010 01:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 79 ]
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Gnostikosis - 08 October 2010 01:17 PM
Write4U - 08 October 2010 12:15 PM

Same answer as above.

Any personal experience is an internal conversation.

Ok sure, one’s perception of reality is a personal experience. Me having this conversation with you boils down to an internal conversation. If that is what you are saying I have no problem with it.

Our perception of reality is an internal experience. How does that answer the God issue?

It answers what God is not. (white bearded man on a golden throne, angels fluttering about, issuing thunderous commands to certain “chosen” people).

Perception of reality is the foundation of contemplating the existence of God. The difference lies in geographics and demographics.
Is the christian god the same god as the islamic god? (There is only ONE god, and His name is…..take your pick… hmmm )

Personally I don’t care what anyone calls their god (mine is Potential), as long as they don’t claim exclusive ownership, unless they can prove something tangible (pitch or timbre or presentation of a true miracle), not some vague subjective experience.
On the contrary, many artists, scientists, philosophers, create great works of beauty, explanations of reality, insight, even though they were atheists. Their gods were, Beauty, Function, Thought.
Where did their inspiration come from? God or from within?

[ Edited: 08 October 2010 02:00 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 08 October 2010 03:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 80 ]
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Write4U - 08 October 2010 01:37 PM

It answers what God is not. (white bearded man on a golden throne, angels fluttering about, issuing thunderous commands to certain “chosen” people).

Sure, per many concepts of God I am an atheist.

Perception of reality is the foundation of contemplating the existence of God. The difference lies in geographics and demographics.
Is the christian god the same god as the islamic god? (There is only ONE god, and His name is…..take your pick… hmmm )

Personally I don’t care what anyone calls their god (mine is Potential), as long as they don’t claim exclusive ownership, unless they can prove something tangible (pitch or timbre or presentation of a true miracle), not some vague subjective experience.
On the contrary, many artists, scientists, philosophers, create great works of beauty, explanations of reality, insight, even though they were atheists. Their gods were, Beauty, Function, Thought.
Where did their inspiration come from? God or from within?

According to some beliefs the self is an aspect of God. Kind of… you can’t find God because God is hidden by the face in the mirror. One can never really see themselves, only a reflection or image. Not the true self.

So there is nothing here which conflicts with my concept of God. However there has to be a me for there to be a God.

I feel there is an entity which exists that I identify as myself, I just can’t quite capture exactly what that consists of.

The search for God is the search for one’s self. That IMO is deeply embedded within religious belief. The mistake I think that many make is in creating an external fictitious character to believe in.

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Posted: 08 October 2010 03:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 81 ]
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Gnostikosis - 08 October 2010 03:02 PM
Write4U - 08 October 2010 01:37 PM

It answers what God is not. (white bearded man on a golden throne, angels fluttering about, issuing thunderous commands to certain “chosen” people).

Sure, per many concepts of God I am an atheist.

Perception of reality is the foundation of contemplating the existence of God. The difference lies in geographics and demographics.
Is the christian god the same god as the islamic god? (There is only ONE god, and His name is…..take your pick… hmmm )

Personally I don’t care what anyone calls their god (mine is Potential), as long as they don’t claim exclusive ownership, unless they can prove something tangible (pitch or timbre or presentation of a true miracle), not some vague subjective experience.
On the contrary, many artists, scientists, philosophers, create great works of beauty, explanations of reality, insight, even though they were atheists. Their gods were, Beauty, Function, Thought.
Where did their inspiration come from? God or from within?

According to some beliefs the self is an aspect of God. Kind of… you can’t find God because God is hidden by the face in the mirror. One can never really see themselves, only a reflection or image. Not the true self.

So there is nothing here which conflicts with my concept of God. However there has to be a me for there to be a God.

I feel there is an entity which exists that I identify as myself, I just can’t quite capture exactly what that consists of.

The search for God is the search for one’s self. That IMO is deeply embedded within religious belief. The mistake I think that many make is in creating an external fictitious character to believe in.

I agree with that.

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