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Abortion, Right and Wrong By Rachel Richardson Smith
Posted: 01 October 2010 01:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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Whew! 4 are managable! 20….I’d like to interview the kids in another 20 years. She has a difficult pregnancy with the last one. Just think, if she dies in childbirth, dad can marry a 20 year old and start all over again….in the name of god. She is probably insured for a million or so dollars.

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Posted: 01 October 2010 11:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Mriana - 28 September 2010 06:02 PM

Not this again.  rolleyes  I really get sick of such topics, esp when it is best to leave such things up to the individual woman who is carrying the child.  It is not anyone elses business if she carries the child to term or aborts it, IMO.

I’m not anti-choice but I don’t think it’s that simple ... at the end of the day the foetus is (potentially at least) a human life and deserves (at the very least) some respect.

Keke

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Posted: 01 October 2010 11:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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How about killing a newborn? Do you agree with Peter Singer that, “killing a newborn baby is never equivalent to killing a person, that is, a being who wants to go on living.”? I think I do.

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Posted: 01 October 2010 04:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Kyuuketsuki UK - 01 October 2010 11:25 AM
Mriana - 28 September 2010 06:02 PM

Not this again.  rolleyes  I really get sick of such topics, esp when it is best to leave such things up to the individual woman who is carrying the child.  It is not anyone elses business if she carries the child to term or aborts it, IMO.

I’m not anti-choice but I don’t think it’s that simple ... at the end of the day the foetus is (potentially at least) a human life and deserves (at the very least) some respect.

Keke

Potentially, but it is not yet a human life.  As a dr once told me while I was carrying my first son, it’s a leach.  Technically, it is a bunch of cells in the early stages of pregnancy.  So it is indeed as simple as it being up to the woman if she carries it to term or not.

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 01 October 2010 04:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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George - 01 October 2010 11:38 AM

How about killing a newborn? Do you agree with Peter Singer that, “killing a newborn baby is never equivalent to killing a person, that is, a being who wants to go on living.”? I think I do.

George, I had to make that decision with my second child, only it wasn’t a case of killing a new born or anyone.  The question by the dr to my sons’ father and me at the time was, “If push came to shove, who did we want them to save?”  We both said me, but I added, save us both if you can.  They saved us both and he’s now 19 years old.  I’m glad they did and I love him dearly, but if I had it to do all over again, I’d still make the same decision.  I was also told that if I were to get pregnant again, I could very well die.  Thus, IF it had happen that I had, I would abort just to save my life.  I’m glad it never did happen again, so I didn’t have to ever go through with my decision.

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 01 October 2010 04:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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You are a brave woman, Mriana.

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Posted: 01 October 2010 05:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Well, I don’t think I had much of a choice.  Sometimes you have to do what you have to do to survive.  The dr may have been wrong, but I wasn’t going to try see if they were wrong.

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 01 October 2010 10:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Let me share part of an essay I wrote regarding Colorado’s Proposition 48 (2000) which wanted to define the term “person” to include any human being from the moment of fertilization as “person” relating to inalienable rights, equality of justice, and due process of Law.   (click) - it was defeated grin

... Can we please consider a fertilized egg for a moment? It is a seed, home to unknowable potentialities. Do proponents understand that depending upon which data you believe, fifty to sixty-five percent of all pregnancies spontaneously (god initiated?) abort?


Yes, those fertilized eggs are bundles of sacred life and a world of potentialities. They deserve to be treated as sacred entities. But, death, passing on is a part of life, especially during those months of gestation. The fertilized egg must achieve genuine viability before it deserves the mantle of “personhood.” It seems most unreasonable to demand that a “Potentiality” deserves the same legal standing as an existing human…

Also see “Choice 101” put together by TLC-Life-Center
Your Online, Abortion-Rights, Education Course.

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Posted: 02 October 2010 12:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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That definition (from Prop 48) is imbecilic.  Something like 25% of all pregnancies are terminated by the mother’s own body within the first 6 weeks.  It shoots up to like 95% if there are any chromosomal abnormalities.

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“In the end nature is horrific and teaches us nothing.” -Mutual of Omicron

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Posted: 05 October 2010 12:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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George - 01 October 2010 11:38 AM

How about killing a newborn? Do you agree with Peter Singer that, “killing a newborn baby is never equivalent to killing a person, that is, a being who wants to go on living.”? I think I do.

Wait, babies don’t want to go on living?

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“What people do is they confuse cynicism with skepticism. Cynicism is ‘you can’t change anything, everything sucks, there’s no point to anything.’ Skepticism is, ‘well, I’m not so sure.’” -Bill Nye

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Posted: 05 October 2010 12:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Mriana - 01 October 2010 04:38 PM
Kyuuketsuki UK - 01 October 2010 11:25 AM
Mriana - 28 September 2010 06:02 PM

Not this again.  rolleyes  I really get sick of such topics, esp when it is best to leave such things up to the individual woman who is carrying the child.  It is not anyone elses business if she carries the child to term or aborts it, IMO.

I’m not anti-choice but I don’t think it’s that simple ... at the end of the day the foetus is (potentially at least) a human life and deserves (at the very least) some respect.

Keke

Potentially, but it is not yet a human life.  As a dr once told me while I was carrying my first son, it’s a leach.  Technically, it is a bunch of cells in the early stages of pregnancy.  So it is indeed as simple as it being up to the woman if she carries it to term or not.

So, taking that logic one step further, is killing a pregnant woman morally equivalent to killing a non-pregnant woman?

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“What people do is they confuse cynicism with skepticism. Cynicism is ‘you can’t change anything, everything sucks, there’s no point to anything.’ Skepticism is, ‘well, I’m not so sure.’” -Bill Nye

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Posted: 05 October 2010 12:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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domokato - 05 October 2010 12:02 PM
George - 01 October 2010 11:38 AM

How about killing a newborn? Do you agree with Peter Singer that, “killing a newborn baby is never equivalent to killing a person, that is, a being who wants to go on living.”? I think I do.

Wait, babies don’t want to go on living?

I guess they “want” to as much as trees don’t “want” to be chopped down.

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Posted: 05 October 2010 01:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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Wait, babies don’t want to go on living?

Some I’m quite sure wouldn’t.  Ever heard of anencephaly or cyclopia?

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“In the end nature is horrific and teaches us nothing.” -Mutual of Omicron

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Posted: 05 October 2010 02:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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And what’s so special about “wanting”?  Does it mean we can kill depressed people with impunity, that we can’t kill a an armed burglar about to kill our children, enemy soldiers, etc.?  I’m not arguing that babies should be killed, but that the “want” argument doesn’t really hold as Singer used it.

Occam

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Posted: 05 October 2010 03:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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George - 05 October 2010 12:08 PM
domokato - 05 October 2010 12:02 PM
George - 01 October 2010 11:38 AM

How about killing a newborn? Do you agree with Peter Singer that, “killing a newborn baby is never equivalent to killing a person, that is, a being who wants to go on living.”? I think I do.

Wait, babies don’t want to go on living?

I guess they “want” to as much as trees don’t “want” to be chopped down.

Just because babies or trees have little defenses available to them or because they don’t have the cognitive ability have preferences like that, doesn’t mean they don’t want to die. Babies do cry when injured, just as trees release sap and other plants release toxins or chemical warning signals to other plants upon injury.

I also agree with Occam’s assessment of the argument.

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“What people do is they confuse cynicism with skepticism. Cynicism is ‘you can’t change anything, everything sucks, there’s no point to anything.’ Skepticism is, ‘well, I’m not so sure.’” -Bill Nye

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