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Good Reference: Annotated Bible, Koran, Book of Mormon
Posted: 27 June 2008 12:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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Sshado - 29 September 2007 10:40 PM

Very interesting website. Those types of things are handy if you aren’t the type of person that wants to read the original and develop your own interpretations. I believe this is a truer way to do it, and I disagree with ‘translating’ scripture into an easier to read English. However, as you said, most believers will dispute it!

Why not into easier to read English?  What’s important?  The words or the message?  The originals weren’t in “difficult to read Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek.”  And the King James Version is so outdated in terms of language that it’s laughably misunderstood.  I know two different people who were taking a seminary course (at different times, probably the same teacher) and there was a discussion as to which translation the teacher was using.  It seemed close to NIV but it was still different.  Somebody snuck up to the podium to have a look.  He was reading Greek and translating on the fly.

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Posted: 03 July 2008 06:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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fmiddel - 27 June 2008 12:58 PM

Why not into easier to read English?  What’s important?  The words or the message?  The originals weren’t in “difficult to read Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek.”  And the King James Version is so outdated in terms of language that it’s laughably misunderstood.  I know two different people who were taking a seminary course (at different times, probably the same teacher) and there was a discussion as to which translation the teacher was using.  It seemed close to NIV but it was still different.  Somebody snuck up to the podium to have a look.  He was reading Greek and translating on the fly.

“Why not into easier to read English?”

Because “The Bible condemns homosexuals” - except it doesn’t. For one thing there is no discussion of lesbians at all, so women can do as they wish.

Also, the passages about male homosexuality are not comprehensible now.

Overview of Leviticus 18:22

This is a passage from the Mosaic Code that is often used to condemn homosexual behavior in general.

In transliterated Hebrew, the verse is written: “V’et zachar lo tishkav mishk’vey eeshah toeyvah hee.”

The first part of this verse is literally translated as “And with a male you shall not lay lyings of a woman.”

Now if it said “And with a male you shall not lay” that would be clear, but “lyings of a woman”? It seems no one knows what that means in this context.

It’s like the 2nd amendment - without the “Militia” bit it would be simple but why the extra qualification? How does that alter it?

There are many other words in the bible not found elsewhere - Iscariot is one notable example.

I’d like a bible in Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek with a word for word translation to English and then a list of alternate possible meanings. Then I could make up my own mind.

[ Edited: 02 August 2008 11:33 AM by A Voice of Sanity ]
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Posted: 06 July 2008 10:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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A Voice of Sanity - 03 July 2008 06:53 PM

“Why not into easier to read English?”

Because “The Bible condemns homosexuals” - except it doesn’t. For one thing there is no discussion of lesbians at all, so women can do as they wish.

Also, the passages about male homosexuality are not comprehensible now.

Overview of Leviticus 18:22

This is a passage from the Mosaic Code that is often used to condemn homosexual behavior in general.

In transliterated Hebrew, the verse is written: “V’et zachar lo tishkav mishk’vey eeshah toeyvah hee.”

The first part of this verse is literally translated as “And with a male you shall not lay lyings of a woman.”

Now if it said “And with a male you shall not lay” that would be clear, but “lyings of a woman”? It seems no one knows what that means in this context.

It’s like the 2nd amendment - without the “Militia” bit it would be simple but why the extra qualification? How does that alter it?

There are many other words in the bible not found elsewhere - Iscariot is one notable example.

I’d like a bible in Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek with a word for word translation to English and then a list of alternate possible meanings. Then I could make up my own mind.

I like that idea.  It would be most beneficial.

edited to change color.

[ Edited: 02 August 2008 03:06 PM by Occam ]
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Posted: 02 August 2008 05:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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I found this on Sam Harris.org. I thought some here may be interested.

~ Volunteer Editors Needed for The Scripture Project - http://www.samharris.org/

Steve Wells, the creator of the Skeptic’s Annotated Bible, Qur’an, and Book of Mormon, has donated the full contents of his website to the Reason Project.

At the Reason Project, we intend to refine Steve’s work in a section of our website entitled “The Scripture Project” where we will have religious scholars, historians, scientists, and other qualified people continue to annotate these texts on a Wiki. With the input of the right scholars, we are confident that the Reason Project website will quickly become the preeminent place for scriptural criticism on the internet.

In the meantime, however, we need help porting the full contents of the Skeptics Annotated Bible, Qur’an, and Book of Mormon over to the Reason Project website. We are seeking volunteers to help us edit each page of the Scripture Project Wiki to see that it correctly duplicates the parent-page on Wells’ site. This is a big job, but it will be quickly accomplished by a hundred or so volunteers. If you are familiar with adding to Wikis and are willing to donate a few hours over the next few weeks to the launch of the Reason Project website, we would be enormously grateful for your help.

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Posted: 02 August 2008 07:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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(pssst——you might want to change the color of your text…....blue is only to be used by the administrators.)

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Posted: 02 August 2008 03:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Right, Asanta.  I don’t read this thread very often, but I’ll change mfiddel’s post #18 now.  smile

Occam

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Posted: 11 September 2008 11:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Brilliant website.

But even more amusing are the links to the Christian apologists who debunk the “so-called contradictions and absurdities.”

I found myself almost admiring their King Knut like standing firm in the face of overwhelming reason.

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Posted: 30 September 2008 12:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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I don’t get it.. if we know man created god and not the other way then what does it matter what these books said in the first part of our human experience?
I guess I mean, stop looking at them if they’re crap… wouldn’t it be wise to stop giving time and effort to something you refuted already? and especially considering their age..  historical documents aren’t part of modern culture as I experience it and why should this be?  shut eye

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Posted: 21 November 2008 03:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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forexsystemprofi - 21 November 2008 01:42 AM
dougsmith - 31 August 2006 04:20 AM

NB: I am sure that some of their interpretations will be disputed by believers. Something to keep in mind, even as you read the words themselves.

Reading things like “God planned to kill Jesus from the get-go” ( http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/1pet/1.html ) make me think that people who are poor in mind always laugh about what they can not understand. If I do not understand something I’d better be silent no to shame myself in others people’s eyes.

Nobody is laughing! It makes no more sense to critique this annotated Bible based on one citation than to call Christianity into question based on one inconsistency in the Bible.

“The precious blood of Christ ... was foreordained before the foundation of the world.”
God planned to kill Jesus from the get-go. (Cf. Rev.13:8)

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Posted: 26 February 2009 07:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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I know a number of Christians who are pretty intelligent. I think we have to be very careful not to equate belief systems with intellectual horsepower. It’s always nice to feel intellectually and morally superior to those with whom we disagree, but it just as often a case of us being intellectually and morally arrogant.

Taking a smug stance on issues doesn’t further the discourse very effectively, as it instantly alienates those with differing views and keeps them from listening.

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Posted: 26 February 2009 07:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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omnibus09 - 26 February 2009 07:48 AM

I know a number of Christians who are pretty intelligent. I think we have to be very careful not to equate belief systems with intellectual horsepower. It’s always nice to feel intellectually and morally superior to those with whom we disagree, but it just as often a case of us being intellectually and morally arrogant.

Taking a smug stance on issues doesn’t further the discourse very effectively, as it instantly alienates those with differing views and keeps them from listening.

Agreed, but it might be more effective to discuss a particular case. While it is true that one should not equate intellectual horsepower with belief systems, it is certainly also true that intelligent people can believe some very silly things, and more often than one might suppose. And I am not talking only about religion.

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Posted: 26 February 2009 08:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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That’s a good point, Doug. Issac Newton had some remarkably weird views, at least by today’s standards. He looked long and hard for a ‘bible code’ and worked dilligently on alchemy for his entire life.

There just seems to be folks on this forum who equate people of faith to ignorant idiots, or knuckle-dragging cave dwellers.

There are times when I wistfully miss the idea of a omnipresent and all-powerful BIG DADDY [ or MOMMY ].

However, those kinds of beliefs may result in some corrosion of the brain, especially in the reason, logic, and skeptical areas.

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Posted: 26 February 2009 08:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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omnibus09 - 26 February 2009 08:27 AM

There just seems to be folks on this forum who equate people of faith to ignorant idiots

Ignorant idiots? No. Ignorant? Yes.

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Posted: 26 February 2009 04:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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OK, ‘ignorant’ but, gee whiz, aren’t we all pretty ignorant about a lot of subjects?

There is an ‘arrogance of ignorance’ reflected by some stubborn religious people. They know God will take care of everything, so they need no further knowledge. In fact, additional knowldge is the Devil’s handiwork and must be avoided at all costs! Information is a tool used for evil subversion of their faith. Skeptical thinking is an affront to all true believers.

Then there is an ‘arrogance of information’ where a slew of facts is thrown in the mental face of folks in an attempt to overwhelm them with data. Information/data is not knowledge. Knowledge reflects some kind of collating and sorting and understanding of information, not the assembly of data.

I seek knowledge, even though it often disturbs me greatly. When I stop doing that I’ll just hunker down in a mental hole somewhere I guess.

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Posted: 20 April 2009 12:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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I have found the BibleGateWay to be useful if you want to look up a Bible passage.  They have been transcribing more and more versions of the Bible over the years, English and other languages.  They very conveniently give a keyword, or “Book Chap:Verse” search.  They give the text verbatim without commentary.

Quran4u.com has some images of the Arabic text and English text, it is an English web site overall.  They have audio too, so you can hear how to chant the Qu’ran.

Multilingual Qu’ran is an English site with Unicode Arabic (rather than images) and English transcription of the Qu’ran, with audio so that you can hear the chanting.  This is merely at the Beta stage of development.  Most of the recent Mozilla based and IE web browers can handle the left-handed (right-to-left) text.

[ Edited: 20 April 2009 07:56 PM by jump_in_the_pit ]
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