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Socialism in Sweden? (93 years later)
Posted: 10 November 2010 01:41 PM   [ Ignore ]
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  Emilia-Louisa.  Ha, the whole socialist thing was not so serious as some might think;)...I’m just Swedish, so that sort of makes me a socialist by US standards (which I happen to find very amusing).

socialism-socialism-politics-obama-demotivational-poster-1253890946.jpg

I have NO pictures of sweden today (93 yrs later), but I am sure that by now the country must be in ruins.
Poor Swedes, to let themselves be manipulated into Free health care, advanced education, low unemployment and all those other social services which hurt the general welfare of the population.
Now, if you look at the US, you can clearly see that Capitalism is a much better way to social wealth and stability.

Sorry, was going to bring more evidence of the evils of socialism, but gotta talk to my lawyer to sue my neighbor. vampire

[ Edited: 10 November 2010 01:46 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 10 November 2010 01:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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The U.S. is not Sweden. Also, China is a socialistic country and they seem to be doing okay. Just like with everything else, I think it might be a little more complicated…

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Posted: 10 November 2010 01:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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I’m pretty sure Write was being ironic, George.

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Posted: 10 November 2010 02:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Yes, I know that. What I am trying to say is that if it works for Sweden it doesn’t necessarily have to work for the U.S.

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Posted: 10 November 2010 02:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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EDIT
Nevermind.

[ Edited: 10 November 2010 02:19 PM by Dead Monky ]
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Posted: 10 November 2010 02:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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George - 10 November 2010 02:06 PM

Yes, I know that. What I am trying to say is that if it works for Sweden it doesn’t necessarily have to work for the U.S.

I wonder which system is more efficient.
In the US a poor person can go to the hospital (emergency) and receive services. As no payment is made by that person, the hospital must now seek reimbursement from various state and federal programs, with all the administrative costs and time waste, or raise prices to those who do have ability to pay cash but carry no insurance. As insurance companies set their own reimbursement rates and allowable services we end up with a situation where a person with means but no insurance, is penalized and charged unfairly for both the poor person and the low insurance reimbursements (if any).
If a poor person was covered (universal healthcare) to begin with, none of this would be necessary and as everyone contributes into the system according to his ability to pay (taxes), none of this convoluted billing and resulting unfair pricing to some would be necessary.
Seems to me that universal healthcare is the most efficient, fair and reliable means of keeping a healthy population.

[ Edited: 10 November 2010 02:26 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 10 November 2010 02:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Write4U - 10 November 2010 02:22 PM

I wonder which system is more efficient.

Assuming you can blame the efficiency on the system.

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Posted: 10 November 2010 02:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Dead Monky - 10 November 2010 02:16 PM

EDIT
Nevermind.

hehe….give me time DM…. grin  (the email notification had the full text)

[ Edited: 10 November 2010 02:45 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 10 November 2010 02:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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George - 10 November 2010 02:27 PM
Write4U - 10 November 2010 02:22 PM

I wonder which system is more efficient.

Assuming you can blame the efficiency on the system.

Did I not accurately describe the system as we have it today? My wife is a nurse, but cannot afford health insurance (1000 p/mo), and when she had to go to hospital she ended up paying cash at a much higher rate than what an insurance company would have paid. Is that is not a systemic problem?

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Posted: 10 November 2010 02:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Write4U - 10 November 2010 02:32 PM

Is that is not a systemic problem?

I don’t know.

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Posted: 10 November 2010 02:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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I listened to a couple interesting interviews on Fresh Air yesterday concerning the nuts and bolts of one sector of our health care system and how it has spiraled out of control.
Between the two interviews both sides seemed well represented. In the end it seemed, to me, to come right back down to the boogyman of a system built on the Profits Űber Alles paradigm that America embraces so well. So long as that angle remains the most important, pretty much every initiative will stumble and bumble - because someone will see extracting as much profit as possible as their prime objective, which of course overturns the apple cart of good intentions, since it leaves less cash for the system it was intended for.

Just to show that I’m beyond being shamed, here’s the link for your edification  tongue wink

Fresh Air - 11-9-10
http://www.npr.org/templates/rundowns/rundown.php?prgId=13&prgDate=11-09-2010
What Dialysis Taught Us About Universal Health Care
[26 min 48 sec]

Medicare’s Chief M.D. Speaks About Dialysis
[12 min 41 sec]

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Posted: 10 November 2010 04:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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George - 10 November 2010 02:50 PM
Write4U - 10 November 2010 02:32 PM

Is that is not a systemic problem?

I don’t know.

To have insurance company’s CEOs pocket millions in bonuses (profit or excess money) where it should be used to provide services seems to me a systemic problem. The greatest losses of available funds occur in administrative costs.
A single payer system (standardization) has the least amount of administrative costs and frees up money for SERVICES.
After all is said and done, regardless of waste in government services, no one receives bonuses earned from profiting on peoples health care. Of course the insurance industries do reward the politicians with (now) unlimited campaign contributions. Thus offering bonuses to politicians, again which should have gone to health services. Another systemic problem.
My motto is…“healthcare and “profit” are mutually exclusive”.

[ Edited: 10 November 2010 04:44 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 10 November 2010 04:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Nurses get paid a lot, Doctors get paid a lot, pharmaceutical companies make get paid a lot, though I’ve been told this is because all of the testing required by the government cost them a lot.

Maybe all this cost is necessary however in Australia, they seem to be able to deal with health care with a lot less cost.

In my experience, throwing more money at a problem does not fix the problem. We have all these smart people running around, Seems funny that no one can figure out how to reduce our health care costs.

When I’ve gone to the Doctor before, my insurance gets billed by 4 doctors. Three of them I didn’t see, never met, I don’t know if they were even in the same building.

People are worried about the cost of socialism… Seems we are already paying what socialism would cost us one way or another without getting any of the benefits of socialism. IOW it can’t be any worse.

People will label something socialism or capitalism to get a knee-jerk response. So people will, without thought label an idea as bad. Labeling something doesn’t fix a thing.

I’m just waiting for it to all fall apart because most seem to be waiting for the other guy to sacrifice for the greater good.

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Posted: 10 November 2010 04:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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CC.  Just to show that I’m beyond being shamed, here’s the link for your edification

 
CC
Please do not alter your excellent habit of referring to pertinent links. Why write two pages of personal interpretation of what is usually so eloquently explained in the links. It allows a person to decide if its worth reading or not. Personally I have gleaned much information without having to surf sites myself.
And you usually do make a brief conclusion or comments which explains your position.
To me it is the perfect way to inform and present supporting documentation.

[ Edited: 10 November 2010 05:08 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 10 November 2010 05:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Gnostikosis - 10 November 2010 04:52 PM

Nurses get paid a lot, Doctors get paid a lot, pharmaceutical companies make get paid a lot, though I’ve been told this is because all of the testing required by the government cost them a lot.

Maybe all this cost is necessary however in Australia, they seem to be able to deal with health care with a lot less cost.

People are worried about the cost of socialism… Seems we are already paying what socialism would cost us one way or another without getting any of the benefits of socialism. IOW it can’t be any worse.

People will label something socialism or capitalism to get a knee-jerk response. So people will, without thought label an idea as bad. Labeling something doesn’t fix a thing.

I’m just waiting for it to all fall apart because most seem to be waiting for the other guy to sacrifice for the greater good.

It already has fallen apart. What is it now? 20, 30, 40 million people without health insurance?

Yes, doctors and nurses get paid alot. But then they have studied for 5-10 years to acquire their skills and usually leave college deep in debt (football players get paid a lot more). But who make the most, relative to value delivered, are the Insurance and Drug companies. The testing costs are a myth. R&D are legitimate “expenses” and can be written off. But drug companies not only write off the R&D costs, then they add the expense to the cost of the product (double dipping) before they mark up for profit, but only in the US. Thats why in Canada, many US manufactured drugs are so much cheaper. We pay for the R&D costs plus profit for people in Canada.  big surprise

The reason why universal one payer healthcare is cheaper is because it has fewer middlemen (administrative costs) who pocket money without providing Health Care.
http://www.expatforum.com/articles/health/health-care-in-australia.html
http://www.swedishhealthcare.se/swedenshealthcaresystem.html

[ Edited: 10 November 2010 06:09 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 10 November 2010 06:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Write4U - 10 November 2010 04:56 PM

CC.  Just to show that I’m beyond being shamed, here’s the link for your edification

 
CC
Please do not alter your excellent habit of referring to pertinent links. Why write two pages of personal interpretation of what is usually so eloquently explained in the links. It allows a person to decide if its worth reading or not. Personally I have gleaned much information without having to surf sites myself.
And you usually do make a brief conclusion or comments which explains your position.
To me it is the perfect way to inform and present supporting documentation.

Take that DM cool smirk
thanks Write4U

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before we have permission to trash them?

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