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IQ, how does it express itself?
Posted: 12 November 2010 12:55 AM   [ Ignore ]
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Question: If another intellect like say Einstein existed, but was part of a minor tribe in an obscure corner of the world, how would he know, moreover how would we know?
What does an IQ test measure? It measures the capacity of critical thinking and analysis. The question then becomes analysis of what? One can only test analytical powers with subjects that are known to the individual.
It is said that Einstein only used a portion of his total brainpower. It must be thus with everyone. In the Western world, early exposure to a great variety of subjects is in abundance. In the mid-Saharan desert there is no TV, no radio, no newspapers. There is only sand and that what lives in and on the sand. If tested for IQ on those subjects, any native would display a greater analytical understanding of his environment than a Westerner.
I see it a simple linear function. The greater the exposure, the greater the capacity for analysis grows, i.e. “IQ”
But this principle would hold for every human around the globe. Unless a physical condition prevents, the greater the stimulation of the brain, the greater the brain’s capacity for thought grows.

[ Edited: 12 November 2010 01:05 AM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 12 November 2010 01:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Sounds like you answered your own question.

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Posted: 12 November 2010 01:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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TromboneAndrew - 12 November 2010 01:26 AM

Sounds like you answered your own question.

lol…but I may be wrong.  oh oh

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Posted: 12 November 2010 06:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Write4U - 12 November 2010 12:55 AM

It is said that Einstein only used a portion of his total brainpower. It must be thus with everyone.

http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/10percent.asp

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Posted: 12 November 2010 08:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Write4U,

We surely don’t use only a part of our brain. We have big brains and it would be basically a waste of energy to use only a part of it. Natural selection would not allow it. As for the IQ testing, I am not sure where you’re going with this. IQ tests don’t measure people’s (and animals!) knowledge but their intelligence.

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Posted: 12 November 2010 12:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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George - 12 November 2010 08:03 AM

Write4U,

We surely don’t use only a part of our brain. We have big brains and it would be basically a waste of energy to use only a part of it. Natural selection would not allow it. As for the IQ testing, I am not sure where you’re going with this. IQ tests don’t measure people’s (and animals!) knowledge but their intelligence.

I did not mean to say that we only use a part of our physical brain.
But we do grow synapses as we learn. Is that not why we advocate to expose children to as much variety of information as possible? We use only part of our total capacity to grow synapses in our brains. Thus the more information is fed into the brain the more synapses and the greater its capacity for recognition and information processing.

http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2009/11/30/Synapses-form-rapidly-in-motor-learning/UPI-90511259617600/

My question was, how do you begin to test IQ on people with diifferent life experiences? Can a fair and objective test be devised at all?
How do you devise a test involving a simple box to a person who has never seen a box (square angles)? How do you explain an inch to a person who measures by the length of his hand? How do you explain a “children on a bus” test to a person who has never seen a car? How do you present a test to a person who has never seen pen and paper and cannot read? Lack of knowledge in those basic areas are not an indication of lack of intelligence. They indicate a lack of exposure to knowledge.
IMO, any IQ test must be formulated within the person’s scope of knowledge, or the results will be skewed.
Intelligence is ability to recognize and analyze a given set of problems. But if the problems are outside of a person’s life experience, it seems to me that any result would not be a fair indication of a person’s intelligence.
I cited before a case of a severely autistic girl who was institutionalized (for severely mentally retarded persons) for 20 years before she got a hold of a computer, after which she went on to college and earned degrees. Once she was able to express herself it turned out she had a very high IQ. Her disability was due to a defect in a part of the brain which did not affect her intelligence, only the ability to express itself.

[ Edited: 12 November 2010 01:04 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 12 November 2010 01:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Even apes can complete an IQ test, Write4U. It has nothing to do with diifferent life experiences.

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Posted: 12 November 2010 01:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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George - 12 November 2010 01:15 PM

Even apes can complete an IQ test, Write4U. It has nothing to do with diifferent life experiences.

And some do remarkably well in an environment which is completely alien to their genetic memory. Actually, seems to me that this proves my point. Expose an ape to a symbolic language and they can learn to communicate in a relatively sophisticated way, even as they possess a brain physically much smaller than ours, but apparently big enough to absorb completely new concepts.
I remember a time when they were trying to find a mate for a female chimp (I forgot her name), so they showed her several candidates on a tv screen. Actually it was very similar to what dating services offer today. She rejected several candidates, one rejection of a magnificent male was based on her assessment that he was not clean and well groomed! She finally selected a mate by indicating she wanted to hug him. I am sure this type of selection also happens in the wild, it is just that we can’t see this.

[ Edited: 12 November 2010 01:35 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 12 November 2010 01:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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IMHO, the closest thing to an intelligence test that we can do is to test a lot of different skills, and create an aggregate score.  But, then, you just get a score that tells us how good a person is at a particular set of tasks.  The only “true” way to measure overall intelligence is to measure performance on every task possible, which is ridiculous.

And, yes, many of those testable tasks that can measure aspects of intelligence do depend on education and/or life experiences.  For example, the common word association skill often tested in IQ tests vastly favors people whose native language is the same as the words in the test.

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Posted: 19 November 2010 02:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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IQ is also known to lie a long a bell curve, or normal curve.Intelligence is a broad reflection of the capability to comprehend a person’s surroundings and in this form it can be measuredsmilesmilesmile

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Posted: 19 November 2010 02:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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blue22 - 19 November 2010 02:42 AM

IQ is also known to lie a long a bell curve, or normal curve.Intelligence is a broad reflection of the capability to comprehend a person’s surroundings and in this form it can be measured

Now that I don’t see the ads anymore…welcome Blue… grin

I agree with your observation.

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Posted: 19 November 2010 02:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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blue22 - 19 November 2010 02:42 AM

IQ is also known to lie a long a bell curve, or normal curve.Intelligence is a broad reflection of the capability to comprehend a person’s surroundings and in this form it can be measuredsmilesmilesmile

Bold by me. Guess how different the environments of e.g. an USA or Uganda citizen are…

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Posted: 12 December 2010 07:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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As someone with a so-called, statistically “High IQ” (repeatedly measured and typically within the same few points), I have only found, if anything, it affects my ability to learn.  I am not master at anything.  I play several instruments, but am not great at any of them.  I speak only two languages.  Writing (as in professionally) is probably the only true great skill I have.  I cannot draw well, or understand math of too much complexity, nor understand mechanics in any great way.  I forgot who the person was, but someone developed a theory that there were different kinds of intelligences, and I have found that my ability to understand game theory and predict strategy of “opponents” or other actors in daily life is one skill I seem to have above others.  So I would assume that is probably best expressed in the types of IQ tests they give, versus mechanics or math. 

Conversely, I’ve known some folks who I doubt had very high IQ’s, who had complete technical mastery of their job fields and have done quite well.  I think having a High IQ helps, but isn’t any perfect prediction of what is to come.  People with extremely high IQs often seem to be anti-social or asocial, at best.

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Posted: 12 December 2010 10:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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A couple of comments.  A number of years ago a psychologist at, I believe, USC did a factor analysis of an extremely wide variety of questions that could be or were posed on IQ and other kinds of ability tests and was able to identify, I think, fourteen completely separate mental capabilities in humans.  The usual IQ tests given in schools or jobs tend to speciallize on only a few of them, essentially what’s required in academic and work situations. 

As a testing and measurement instructor said in a class I took when I was considering becoming a teacher, IQ as found by our IQ tests fall along a normal bell shaped distribution.  However, a fair amount of that distribution could be defined by the kinds of questions the authors ask.  As such, the real distribution could be skewed to one or the other side. 

Based on these I think we have to take the values with a very larg grain of salt.  I agree that it’s nice to learn that one has a superior IQ, but only one measure that will determine success in life.  Other factors are at least as important.

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Posted: 13 December 2010 01:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Occam. - 12 December 2010 10:49 PM

A number of years ago a psychologist at, I believe, USC did a factor analysis of an extremely wide variety of questions that could be or were posed on IQ and other kinds of ability tests and was able to identify, I think, fourteen completely separate mental capabilities in humans.  The usual IQ tests given in schools or jobs tend to speciallize on only a few of them, essentially what’s required in academic and work situations. 

As a testing and measurement instructor said in a class I took when I was considering becoming a teacher, IQ as found by our IQ tests fall along a normal bell shaped distribution.  However, a fair amount of that distribution could be defined by the kinds of questions the authors ask.  As such, the real distribution could be skewed to one or the other side. 

Based on these I think we have to take the values with a very larg grain of salt.  I agree that it’s nice to learn that one has a superior IQ, but only one measure that will determine success in life.  Other factors are at least as important.

Do you mean this?

In my opinion, one should drop the concept of IQ as a measurement of a property somebody has. “Intelligence tests” are context dependent. The real requirement mostly is to have a prediction of somebody being successful in education or in a job. It is perfectly possible to design tests that highly correlate with these successes.

Here in Switzerland there are organised tests, called ‘multicheck’. They are different for different professionals: technical, administrative, commerce, health, social. For these kinds of checks it is completely irrelevant why somebody has this capability, if it is nature or nurture. IQ in general is a more or less empty concept.

GdB

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Posted: 13 December 2010 07:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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UlsterScots432 - 12 December 2010 07:58 PM

As someone with a so-called, statistically “High IQ” (repeatedly measured and typically within the same few points), I have only found, if anything, it affects my ability to learn.  I am not master at anything.  I play several instruments, but am not great at any of them.  I speak only two languages.  Writing (as in professionally) is probably the only true great skill I have.  I cannot draw well, or understand math of too much complexity, nor understand mechanics in any great way.

Maybe your IQ is statistically high, but still not high enough to understand math and mechanics.

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