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I don’t believe in atheists
Posted: 18 December 2010 10:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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pgpb - 18 December 2010 11:08 AM

.......but I am not sure if I want to totally throw out all belief…...when I looked at my children for the first time…..when I look up at the vastness of the Universe…..when I see how the love of my wife has saved me from a life of lonliness…..when I look at how lucky and blessed I am…....I tend to believe in something….I don’t know what it is….but I sense it is more than me…..I sense something magical and divine within me and everyone.

What an interesting thread this has been.  I read pgpb’s post really enjoying it, then I read the many critiques of it and actually couldn’t find much in there to object to either.

Maybe there’s a third sort of something.  For myself it is a very visceral connection to the flow of life.  Even physically our molecules are endlessly recycled, our DNA plans have a direct physical lineage back to the dawn of time.  Our impulses have real roots.  There is something of power and comfort in that.  Still haven’t figure it out, but none of the above perspectives negate the fact that we actually do stand on the knife edge of infinity stretching out in both directions.  And there is some sort of spiritual power in such an appreciation.  And I believe pgpb’s above words touch on that   wink

pgpb I hope you stick around and join our discussions.

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Posted: 18 December 2010 10:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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ExMachina - 18 December 2010 10:10 PM

They just need to get past the problem of their short lifespan.

This is where the Jellyfish will inherit the seas. They lack that death problem.

http://green.yahoo.com/blog/guest_bloggers/26/the-world-s-only-immortal-animal.html

Yes, but they still have that ‘brain problem’ which the octopus has already solved. Now, if only you could only cross a jelly (I believe they have dropped the ‘fish’ from the name!) with an octopus cheese .

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Posted: 18 December 2010 10:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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asanta - 18 December 2010 10:30 PM
ExMachina - 18 December 2010 10:10 PM

They just need to get past the problem of their short lifespan.

This is where the Jellyfish will inherit the seas. They lack that death problem.

http://green.yahoo.com/blog/guest_bloggers/26/the-world-s-only-immortal-animal.html

Yes, but they still have that ‘brain problem’ which the octopus has already solved. Now, if only you could only cross a jelly (I believe they have dropped the ‘fish’ from the name!) with an octopus cheese .

HEY! Don’t make this an Octopus/Jellyfish throw-down! Because the Jellyfish will win!

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Posted: 18 December 2010 10:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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citizenschallenge.pm - 18 December 2010 10:18 PM
pgpb - 18 December 2010 11:08 AM

.......but I am not sure if I want to totally throw out all belief…...when I looked at my children for the first time…..when I look up at the vastness of the Universe…..when I see how the love of my wife has saved me from a life of lonliness…..when I look at how lucky and blessed I am…....I tend to believe in something….I don’t know what it is….but I sense it is more than me…..I sense something magical and divine within me and everyone.

What an interesting thread this has been.  I read pgpb’s post really enjoying it, then I read the many critiques of it and actually couldn’t find much in there to object to either.

Maybe there’s a third sort of something.  For myself it is a very visceral connection to the flow of life.  Even physically our molecules are endlessly recycled, our DNA plans have a direct physical lineage back to the dawn of time.  Our impulses have real roots.  There is something of power and comfort in that.  Still haven’t figure it out, but none of the above perspectives negate the fact that we actually do stand on the knife edge of infinity stretching out in both directions.  And there is some sort of spiritual power in such an appreciation.  And I believe pgpb’s above words touch on that   wink

pgpb I hope you stick around and join our discussions.

I agree completely, one could say there is a fundamental majesty (size) and profound beauty (fractals) in the way the universe works. But I cannot convince myself that an intentional intelligence is a necessary ingredient (ockham’s razor).

[ Edited: 18 December 2010 10:39 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 18 December 2010 10:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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ExMachina - 18 December 2010 10:34 PM
asanta - 18 December 2010 10:30 PM
ExMachina - 18 December 2010 10:10 PM

They just need to get past the problem of their short lifespan.

This is where the Jellyfish will inherit the seas. They lack that death problem.

http://green.yahoo.com/blog/guest_bloggers/26/the-world-s-only-immortal-animal.html

Yes, but they still have that ‘brain problem’ which the octopus has already solved. Now, if only you could only cross a jelly (I believe they have dropped the ‘fish’ from the name!) with an octopus cheese .

HEY! Don’t make this an Octopus/Jellyfish throw-down! Because the Jellyfish will win!

A “Jellypus”.......I like it!!!!

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Posted: 18 December 2010 10:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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I agree completely, one could say there is a fundamental majesty (size) and profound beauty (fractals) in the way the universe works. But I cannot convince myself that an intentional intelligence is a necessary ingredient (ockham’s razor).

Whenever I hear how beauty of the world as being proof that a deity created the universe. I can’t help but to agree. Only a God could create the beauty of a puss filled melanoma, or watching the beauty of hyenas tearing apart a helpless cub. It all brings a tear to my eye.

[ Edited: 18 December 2010 10:50 PM by ExMachina ]
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Posted: 18 December 2010 10:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Write4U - 18 December 2010 10:35 PM

I agree completely, one could say there is a fundamental majesty (size) and profound beauty (fractals) in the way the universe works. But I cannot convince myself that an intentional intelligence is a necessary ingredient (ockham’s razor).

Hey, I wasn’t arguing that   wink

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Posted: 18 December 2010 10:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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ExMachina - 18 December 2010 10:47 PM

I agree completely, one could say there is a fundamental majesty (size) and profound beauty (fractals) in the way the universe works. But I cannot convince myself that an intentional intelligence is a necessary ingredient (ockham’s razor).

Whenever I hear how beauty of the world as being proof that a deity created the universe. I can’t help but to agree. Only a God could create the beauty of a puss filled melanoma, or watching the beauty of hyenas tearing apart a helpless cub. It all brings a tear to my eye.

Gods work in mysterious ways…. tongue laugh

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Posted: 18 December 2010 10:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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ExMachina - 18 December 2010 10:47 PM

I agree completely, one could say there is a fundamental majesty (size) and profound beauty (fractals) in the way the universe works. But I cannot convince myself that an intentional intelligence is a necessary ingredient (ockham’s razor).

Whenever I hear how beauty of the world as being proof that a deity created the universe. I can’t help but to agree. Only a God could create the beauty of a puss filled melanoma, or watching the beauty of hyenas tearing apart a helpless cub. It all brings a tear to my eye.

To mention only a few of the objections to the concept of “intentional intelligence”.

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Posted: 18 December 2010 10:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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Write4U - 18 December 2010 10:40 PM

A “Jellypus”.......I like it!!!!

ain’t gotta chance against an “Octapussy”

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Posted: 18 December 2010 11:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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citizenschallenge.pm - 18 December 2010 10:58 PM
Write4U - 18 December 2010 10:40 PM

A “Jellypus”.......I like it!!!!

ain’t gotta chance against an “Octapussy”

LOL

I know it is OffT, but the octopus is one of the simplest and effective organisms. Apparently it has a compound brain made up from seperate processing centers in each arm (tentacle), all connected with a massive neural network to a main brain. An evolutionary work of art.
http://www.cogs.indiana.edu/spackled/2009readings/The Octopus- A Model for a Comparative Analysis of.pdf

[ Edited: 18 December 2010 11:43 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 18 December 2010 11:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Write4U - 18 December 2010 11:12 PM

I know it is OffT, but the octopus is one of the simplest and effective organisms. Apparently it has a compound brain made up from seperate processing centers in each tentacle, all connected with a massive neural network to a main brain. An evolutionary work of art.

There, but for the grace of evolution…go I!! tongue laugh An elegant solution!

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Posted: 19 December 2010 12:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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asanta - 18 December 2010 11:17 PM
Write4U - 18 December 2010 11:12 PM

I know it is OffT, but the octopus is one of the simplest and effective organisms. Apparently it has a compound brain made up from seperate processing centers in each tentacle, all connected with a massive neural network to a main brain. An evolutionary work of art.

There, but for the grace of evolution…go I!! tongue laugh An elegant solution!

Wow! Octosex must be great! Can you imagine what humans could do with eight testicles. Each with a mind of their own! Oh wait, you said tentacles…..my bad.

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Posted: 19 December 2010 12:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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cmbf117 - 18 December 2010 11:39 AM
pgpb - 18 December 2010 11:08 AM

I think being agnostic is more intelligent than being atheist…...how can one KNOW .....really KNOW that there is not something more going on here than a bunch of human apes playing about on a planet….

To be frank, I find the first part of this to be insulting. You’re essentially saying that viewing life’s questions as having black and white answers, and not taking either side, is the smart choice. You say, “How can one know,” but that can be applied to MANY things. How can one absolutely know there’s no Flying Spaghetti monster? Know there’s no pink, invisible elephant following me around? Know there’s no Loch Ness Monster?.

So you mean that ASSUMING there are black and white answers isn’t just another assumption?  Oh no, the universe can’t possibly be more complicated than I think it is.  I don’t know is not sufficiently gratifying to the ego.

http://reluctant-messenger.com/reincarnation-proof.htm

psik

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Posted: 19 December 2010 01:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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ExMachina - 19 December 2010 12:17 AM
asanta - 18 December 2010 11:17 PM
Write4U - 18 December 2010 11:12 PM

I know it is OffT, but the octopus is one of the simplest and effective organisms. Apparently it has a compound brain made up from seperate processing centers in each tentacle, all connected with a massive neural network to a main brain. An evolutionary work of art.

There, but for the grace of evolution…go I!! tongue laugh An elegant solution!

Wow! Octosex must be great! Can you imagine what humans could do with eight testicles. Each with a mind of their own! Oh wait, you said tentacles…..my bad.

Actually octopi have arms (my mistake), but imagine being embraced and caressed by eight arms. If there is reincarnation I want to come back as an octopus… tongue rolleye

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