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I don’t believe in atheists
Posted: 19 December 2010 02:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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Isn’t this the second time we have had a thread entitled: “I don’t believe in atheists”?
Outside of the octopus segue, there is a lot of fluffy, unresolved drivel here.
I knew that the deity thing was going to take the “ole cheating turn” towards- “not a god really, not a storybook idea of god, but something…something out there….I can feel it… LOL
Let’s throw away logical discussion. Let’s all talk about the feelings this person has because he has a good wife…the “deity-like” feelings.
1. You are NOT a more intelligent agnostic, or a more intelligent person for that matter, because you have managed to modify your inner-expression of your personally tailored god(who isn’t a god-not a god with a beard and angels-right?) to suit the pigeonholed idea of agnosticism.
In otherwords: “I’m agnostic, but my concept of god(if he exists, because after all I’m agnostic LOL ) is so modern, so in touch with what science may allow my god to be, that I have the right to call atheists fools. Fools, because they are ruling out everything. They are fools because they cannot say that my modern-god doesn’t exist. They cannot rule out what they don’t know.”
2. What part of my inculcation bit didn’t some of you want to talk about? Is that an elephant in the room? Is that too hard to reckon with?
Agnostics…if we could take 500 new born babies and somehow raise them without any social input about gods or spirits or any of that crap do you think they would have any clue about gods or spirits, or agnostics or atheists? No, they wouldn’t.
You agnostics do though. You are confused by your quasi-faith, and try to throw it back and project it on atheists. It’s pathetic really. But it comes up here all the time…in many friggin’ manifestations.
The best you can come up with is…“I can’t be 100% sure of anything, or it’s wrong to have absolutes.” LOL  Who’s to say there isn’t a god? After all I heard about him since I was a small child. Him, and ghosts, and santa clause, and spirits…
Weak!!
Cheers to the few people in this thread who stood up for logic and reason!
Those of you who throw around the “absolutes” argument…your theists! Plain and simple. The “absolutes” argument…that’s not your love for science, or reason, or logic….that’s your subconscious, that’s your fear of death and the unknown. That’s your inner yearning to have a meaning to all this. That’s you not ruling out that escape hatch you may someday need.
No you’re not even close to being agnostics about flying spaghetti monsters, you’re not ruling out the possibility of a savior, of an answer!!
You’re agnostics about God.(with a capital “G”)
The other thing is..why are you “agnostics” always bashing us atheists? It always come down to the same thing too..our resolve, our surety.
Why do you care what we think? So what if we’re sure? Hmnn? I mean it’s getting pretty regular here. Threads about “stiff atheists” “new atheists”, “harsh atheists”, “I don’t believe in atheists”.

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Posted: 19 December 2010 02:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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VYAZMA - 19 December 2010 02:05 AM

Isn’t this the second time we have had a thread entitled: “I don’t believe in atheists”?
Outside of the octopus segue, there is a lot of fluffy, unresolved drivel here.
I knew that the deity thing was going to take the “ole cheating turn” towards- “not a god really, not a storybook idea of god, but something…something out there….I can feel it… LOL
Let’s throw away logical discussion. Let’s all talk about the feelings this person has because he has a good wife…the “deity-like” feelings.
1. You are NOT a more intelligent agnostic, or a more intelligent person for that matter, because you have managed to modify your inner-expression of your personally tailored god(who isn’t a god-not a god with a beard and angels-right?) to suit the pigeonholed idea of agnosticism.
In otherwords: “I’m agnostic, but my concept of god(if he exists, because after all I’m agnostic LOL ) is so modern, so in touch with what science may allow my god to be, that I have the right to call atheists fools. Fools, because they are ruling out everything. They are fools because they cannot say that my modern-god doesn’t exist. They cannot rule out what they don’t know.”
2. What part of my inculcation bit didn’t some of you want to talk about? Is that an elephant in the room? Is that too hard to reckon with?
Agnostics…if we could take 500 new born babies and somehow raise them without any social input about gods or spirits or any of that crap do you think they would have any clue about gods or spirits, or agnostics or atheists? No, they wouldn’t.
You agnostics do though. You are confused by your quasi-faith, and try to throw it back and project it on atheists. It’s pathetic really. But it comes up here all the time…in many friggin’ manifestations.
The best you can come up with is…“I can’t be 100% sure of anything, or it’s wrong to have absolutes.” LOL  Who’s to say there isn’t a god? After all I heard about him since I was a small child. Him, and ghosts, and santa clause, and spirits…
Weak!!
Cheers to the few people in this thread who stood up for logic and reason!
Those of you who throw around the “absolutes” argument…your theists! Plain and simple. The “absolutes” argument…that’s not your love for science, or reason, or logic….that’s your subconscious, that’s your fear of death and the unknown. That’s your inner yearning to have a meaning to all this. That’s you not ruling out that escape hatch you may someday need.
No you’re not even close to being agnostics about flying spaghetti monsters, you’re not ruling out the possibility of a savior, of an answer!!
You’re agnostics about God.(with a capital “G”)
The other thing is..why are you “agnostics” always bashing us atheists? It always come down to the same thing too..our resolve, our surety.
Why do you care what we think? So what if we’re sure? Hmnn? I mean it’s getting pretty regular here. Threads about “stiff atheists” “new atheists”, “harsh atheists”, “I don’t believe in atheists”.

What a bafflingly confusing post. I hit Google translate and it came up with nothing.

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Posted: 19 December 2010 03:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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You may be confused, but I think you just don’t appreciate being called a theist.
Confusing is attempting to state that there is room for agnosticism in atheism…which is exactly what you stated above…

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Posted: 19 December 2010 03:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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ExMachina-

What a bafflingly confusing post. I hit Google translate and it came up with nothing.

But you’re right though..my rant was meandering and unorganized. Plus it used too much poor composition and grammar. Not unlike your “bafflingly confusing post”, which is like saying “speedily fast car”.
I’ll un-confuse it for you:
Agnostics are theists(or deists). Agnostics are the exact inverse of theists/deists who may have questions about their faith. It’s completely interchangeable.

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Posted: 19 December 2010 04:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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VYAZMA - 19 December 2010 03:07 AM

You may be confused, but I think you just don’t appreciate being called a theist.
Confusing is attempting to state that there is room for agnosticism in atheism…which is exactly what you stated above…

So you don’t believe that a person could be both?

Edit

I’ll add a little more to this because it’s late where I am, and I don’t think this will go anywhere if I don’t bring up one important point. I hate when people put a percentage on their beliefs. I’m not going to say that “I’m 99% believing that there isn’t a God, .5% that God is an Alien, and .5% that a God does exist”, because my perception of truth doesn’t change what the truth really is. So me putting a percentage on whether I believe that something exists, or not is completely useless information to myself and anyone I try to convince. When you spend time trying to convince people useless hairsplitting like this, you’re wasting you time when you could be thinking about better things. I’m 95% sure about that.

I don’t think a God exists in our universe, but I always leave the room for possibility that he may and I might be wrong. I have a great deal of reason why I think this way, and I debate those reasons with people who disagree with me. I hold on to the idea that I’m also and Agnostic, because I personally believe that it’s the only rational way to be. Anything else just closes you to other possibilities and this doesn’t go for the belief of a God or not. It goes for everything in your life. If you spend your life unmoving and completely assuming that all your beliefs are 100%, then you’ll be spending your life blind and a bit self absorbed. So I always leave other possibilities open. Not because I think they’ll ultimately be right, but me being any other way would be wrong. (not trying to sound theatrical)

This is where I have the most problem with people when it comes to belief. Being a hard nosed Atheist or Theist doesn’t make you more right that a person who’s more flexible with their beliefs. In fact, it’s a crutch if you can’t listen objectively to what other people believe. I’ve tried to be as objective (not always successful though) when listening to a Christian talk, but I still come up with the same conclusion. They’re wrong. Not only that, I believe that the greater number of them are incapable of handling the cold truth about the universe. That GOD doesn’t exist. Personally I’m glad that there’s no omnipotent baby running the universe, and after I die I won’t care. That to me is true peace. Existing takes up a lot of energy.

I’m not too happy with this reply, but it’s the best I could do at 4am to explain my point of view.

[ Edited: 19 December 2010 06:03 AM by ExMachina ]
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Posted: 19 December 2010 07:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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Well, pgpb, it seems your (supposedly potential) belief in a god boils down to some emotions you experience.  I don’t mean to belittle the value to you of your emotions but I find no reason to examine them here in context of god claims.  They do nothing to advance the issue.  I will say that I think you unfairly criticize my (self-identified) atheism in much the same way you see as a failing of atheists criticizing theists, ie. my position isn’t as you make it out to be for the convenience of your arguments.  I’ve encountered a variety of theistic claims and 0% of them are convincing or even reasonable to me.  That is why I can call myself 100% atheist.  I don’t see how this makes me dogmatic.

[ Edited: 19 December 2010 09:02 AM by the PC apeman ]
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Posted: 19 December 2010 01:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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You will burn in nowhere for no time for not worshiping atheists.

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Posted: 19 December 2010 03:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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No Ex Machina. I don’t think a person can be both.
As I said agnosticism is deism. By the very virtue of what faith and deism is. Lot’s of theists/deists doubt the existence of god. As an agnostic-you won’t rule out the possibility of a god. What’s the difference?
An atheist is not in this category.
As an atheist I am certain of the mechanics of people’s faith. I know why they believe. I know their doubts.
So as an atheist, agnosticism looks and works the same exact way as any garden variety theist does. And no, we don’t have to drag out the ridiculous concepts of percentages. You believe a little less, a catholic believes a little more…
Stop with the whole scientific method thing! Stop with the empirical evidence parts.
You simply are not ruling out the possibility of a god…you rule out plenty of other possibilities, even though you claim you don’t.
You can’t rule out the possibility of a god because it fills in the things you can’t understand. I can’t understand lot’s of things too.
But I don’t leave a little space in there for the possibility of a god being the reason. You do!

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Posted: 19 December 2010 04:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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I found this description earlier.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic

Types of agnosticism
Agnosticism can be subdivided into several categories. Recently suggested variations include:
Agnostic atheism
Agnostic atheists are atheistic because they do not have belief in the existence of any deity, and agnostic because they do not claim to know that a deity does not exist.[15]
Agnostic theism
The view of those who do not claim to know of the existence of any deity, but still believe in such an existence.[15]
Apathetic or Pragmatic agnosticism
The view that there is no proof of either the existence or nonexistence of any deity, but since any deity that may exist appears unconcerned for the universe or the welfare of its inhabitants, the question is largely academic.[citation needed][16]
Ignosticism
The view that a coherent definition of a deity must be put forward before the question of the existence of a deity can be meaningfully discussed. If the chosen definition is not coherent, the ignostic holds the noncognitivist view that the existence of a deity is meaningless or empirically untestable.[17] A.J. Ayer, Theodore Drange, and other philosophers see both atheism and agnosticism as incompatible with ignosticism on the grounds that atheism and agnosticism accept “a deity exists” as a meaningful proposition which can be argued for or against. An ignostic cannot even say whether he/she is a theist or a nontheist until a sufficient definition of theism is put forth.[18][not in citation given]
Strong agnosticism (also called “hard,” “closed,” “strict,” or “permanent agnosticism”)
The view that the question of the existence or nonexistence of a deity or deities and the nature of ultimate reality is unknowable by reason of our natural inability to verify any experience with anything but another subjective experience. A strong agnostic would say, “I cannot know whether a deity exists or not, and neither can you.”
Weak agnosticism (also called “soft,” “open,” “empirical,” or “temporal agnosticism”)
The view that the existence or nonexistence of any deities is currently unknown but is not necessarily unknowable, therefore one will withhold judgment until/if any evidence is available. A weak agnostic would say, “I don’t know whether any deities exist or not, but maybe one day when there is evidence we can find something out.”

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Posted: 19 December 2010 04:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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VYAZMA - 19 December 2010 03:50 PM

You simply are not ruling out the possibility of a god…you rule out plenty of other possibilities, even though you claim you don’t.
You can’t rule out the possibility of a god because it fills in the things you can’t understand. I can’t understand lot’s of things too.
But I don’t leave a little space in there for the possibility of a god being the reason. You do!

This is precisely why I am an atheist. I rule out the existence of fairies without a second thought. I understand that there is no reason to believe fairies exist, within the boundaries of our understanding of the physical world. The same with dragons, leprechauns and Santa Claus. If someone shows me compelling proof, I am open to changing my mind, but that doesn’t make me agnostic in regards to their existence.

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Posted: 19 December 2010 04:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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I don’t recognize your above post. I read the first sentence and then…
Your avoiding the issue.
That quote above satisfies the desire to compartmentalize..that’s all. Anyone can come up with labels…ExMachina, you explain to me what is behind those labels.
Obfuscations! Come on!
You feel the possibility of a god exists! Yes or no?

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Posted: 19 December 2010 04:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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I don’t entertain the idea that a God, fairy, Santa, Jehovah’s Witness, or leprechauns do exist. In my mind it’s all fairytale, but I’m not so arrogant to say that I’m 100% sure.

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Posted: 19 December 2010 04:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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asanta - 19 December 2010 04:02 PM
VYAZMA - 19 December 2010 03:50 PM

You simply are not ruling out the possibility of a god…you rule out plenty of other possibilities, even though you claim you don’t.
You can’t rule out the possibility of a god because it fills in the things you can’t understand. I can’t understand lot’s of things too.
But I don’t leave a little space in there for the possibility of a god being the reason. You do!

This is precisely why I am an atheist. I rule out the existence of fairies without a second thought. I understand that there is no reason to believe fairies exist, within the boundaries of our understanding of the physical world. The same with dragons, leprechauns and Santa Claus. If someone shows me compelling proof, I am open to changing my mind, but that doesn’t make me agnostic in regards to their existence.

Yup! And we all basically cast away the concepts of santa clause or fairies at late childhood, But God! No…that one is really ingrained. What with it’s universal acceptance and possibilities for calming fears and doubts.
With it’s ever changing adaptability to human minds. ie…the new cosmic science based gods. The cosmic/quantum gods that are so palatable to “agnostics”.
As I said above in that mish-mash post…the kind of god an intelligent agnostic can really get his or her brain around. A scientifically explainable god. He He!

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Posted: 19 December 2010 04:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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ExMachina - 19 December 2010 04:10 PM

I don’t entertain the idea that a God, fairy, Santa, Jehovah’s Witness, or leprechauns do exist. In my mind it’s all fairytale, but I’m not so arrogant to say that I’m 100% sure.

Good enough for me. The “arrogant” part is you compensating for the fact that you, like others, think we atheists give a damn about what you believe.
We don’t. A good atheist, as I explained above, completely understands the dynamics of beliefs, faiths, religions etc..The mechanics of it! The humanity of it! We get it. We get the science behind faith and beliefs.

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Posted: 19 December 2010 04:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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ExMachina - 19 December 2010 04:10 PM

I don’t entertain the idea that a God, fairy, Santa, Jehovah’s Witness, or leprechauns do exist. In my mind it’s all fairytale, but I’m not so arrogant to say that I’m 100% sure.

In the end, IMO, we pretty well know what it is not, but most all believe there is a fundamental causal condition to the origins of the universe. The search for that is neither Theistic nor Atheistic nor Agnostic. Don’t we call it “theoretical physics” which by its very nature allows for modification in the face of new evidence?

Actually are Theists and Agnostics not “theoretical spiritualists”?

[ Edited: 19 December 2010 04:37 PM by Write4U ]
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