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The Delusional Atheist
Posted: 23 December 2010 06:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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Definition of DELUSION:
1: the act of deluding : the state of being deluded
2a : something that is falsely or delusively believed or propagated
b : a persistent false psychotic belief regarding the self or persons or objects outside the self that is maintained despite indisputable evidence to the contrary; also : the abnormal state marked by such beliefs.

-from Merriam-Webster

How could this term be applied to atheism?
In the context of this discussion there are two(2) types of people:
Those who entertain the possibility of a god, or believe that a god is possible, or who, having been informed of the possibility of a god-don’t rule it out.
  -and-
The second type of person is someone who rejects the idea of a god, doesn’t entertain the idea of god(s)(despite the universal acceptance of at least the meme of a god), and is 100% positive there is no god in the same way that people are 100% certain of countless other cognitive and empirical evidences that are encountered normally throughout life.(ie..100% certain that their hand is resting on a table, 100% certain that an apple is in their hands and not an orange. 100% certain that gasoline is flammable etc…)
I think the definition of delusional more closely fits an individual who tirelessly impresses the idea that one can’t rule out the possibility of a given idea-any idea- and funnily enough, in this case, an idea that the proponent can’t even describe or place value on.

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Posted: 23 December 2010 07:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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Take care to note that religious people, theists, doubters, part-time religious people, religious out-casts, agnostics, “weak atheists”, “rational atheists”, any other stripe of “atheist” you folks wish to invent, deists, spiritualists, seers, mystics etc all fit into category 1.
Seeing as how nobody knows the definition of atheist I will be more than content to be “labelled” as someone who is 100% certain there is no god.
So all of you folks here who love spending endless minutes delineating and compartmentalizing terms and concepts should focus on the differences between all the people in category 1.
Like the difference between an agnostic and someone who is losing their faith in god, or is doubting the existence of god.

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Posted: 23 December 2010 10:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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Well in dictonary.com it says

delusional - 9 dictionary results
Schizophrenia Symptoms
For Healthcare Professionals - Find Info &
Resources On Schizophrenia.
http://www.JanssenCNS.com
Alzheimer’s & Delusions
If You’ve Noticed Symptoms In Your Loved
One, Learn About Alzheimer’s.
http://www.AlzResourceCenter.com
Schizophrenia Symptoms
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de·lu·sion   
[dih-loo-zhuhn]  Show IPA
–noun
1.
an act or instance of deluding.
2.
the state of being deluded.
3.
a false belief or opinion: delusions of grandeur.
4.
Psychiatry . a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact: a paranoid delusion.
Origin:
1375–1425;  late ME < L dēlūsiōn-  (s. of dēlūsiō ), equiv. to dēlūs ( us ) (ptp. of dēlūdere; see delude) + -iōn- -ion

—Related forms
de·lu·sion·al, de·lu·sion·ar·y, adjective
pre·de·lu·sion, noun

—Can be confused:  allusion, delusion, elusion, hallucination, illusion (see synonym note at illusion).

—Synonyms
1.  deception. See illusion.

Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2010.
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Delusional
Delusions and Delusional Behavior.
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World English Dictionary
delusion (dɪˈluːʒən)
— n
1.  a mistaken or misleading opinion, idea, belief, etc: he has delusions of grandeur
2.  psychiatry illusion See also hallucination a belief held in the face of evidence to the contrary, that is resistant to all reason
3.  the act of deluding or state of being deluded
de’lusional
— adj
de’lusive
— adj
de’lusively
— adv
de’lusiveness
— n
delusory
— adj

Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 10th Edition
2009 © William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd. 1979, 1986 © HarperCollins
Publishers 1998, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009
Cite This Source
Word Origin & History

delusion
“act of misleading someone,” early 15c.; as a form of mental derangement, 1550s. See delude. Technically, delusion is a belief that, though false, has been surrendered to and accepted by the whole mind as a truth; illusion is an impression that, though false, is entertained provisionally on the recommendation of the senses or the imagination, but awaits full acceptance and may not influence action. Delusions of grandeur , the exact phrase, is recorded from 1840, though the two words were in close association for some time before that.


delusional
1871, from delusion + -al (1).
Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2010 Douglas Harper
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Medical Dictionary

de·lu·sion definition
Pronunciation:  /di-ˈl{uuml}-zhən/
Function: n
1 a :  the act of deluding :  the state of being deluded
b :  an abnormal mental state characterized by the occurrence of psychotic delusions
2 :  a false belief regarding the self or persons or objects outside the self that persists despite the facts and occurs in some psychotic states compare HALLUCINATION 1 , ILLUSION 2a ,

de·lu·sion·al definition
Pronunciation:  /di-ˈl{uuml}zh-nəl, -ˈl{uuml}-zhən- ə l/
Function: adj
:  relating to, based on, or affected by delusions delusional patient>
Merriam-Webster’s Medical Dictionary, © 2007 Merriam-Webster, Inc.
Cite This Source
delusion de·lu·sion (dĭ-l&oomacr;‘zhən)
n.
A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom of mental illness.

de·lu’sion·al adj.
The American Heritage® Stedman’s Medical Dictionary
Copyright © 2002, 2001, 1995 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Cite This Source
Science Dictionary
delusion   (dĭ-l ‘zhən) Pronunciation Key
A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom of mental illness, as in schizophrenia.
The American Heritage® Science Dictionary
Copyright © 2002. Published by Houghton Mifflin. All rights reserved.
Cite This Source
Cultural Dictionary
delusion definition

A false belief held despite strong evidence against it; self-deception. Delusions are common in some forms of psychosis. Because of his delusions, the literary character Don Quixote attacks a windmill, thinking it is a giant.

The American Heritage® New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition
Copyright © 2005 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
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Famous Quotations
delusion
“The first dead man on Omaha Beach must be a sailor!”
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and wikipedia says

Delusion
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  (Redirected from Delusional)
See also: Delusional disorder
Delusion
Classification and external resources
ICD-10   F22.
ICD-9   297
MeSH   D003702

It has been suggested that Grandiose delusions, Ideas of reference and Persecutory delusions be merged into this article or section. (Discuss)
A delusion is a fixed belief that is either false, fanciful, or derived from deception. In psychiatry, it is defined to be a belief that is pathological (the result of an illness or illness process) and is held despite evidence to the contrary. As a pathology, it is distinct from a belief based on false or incomplete information, dogma, stupidity, apperception, illusion, or other effects of perception.
Delusions typically occur in the context of neurological or mental illness, although they are not tied to any particular disease and have been found to occur in the context of many pathological states (both physical and mental). However, they are of particular diagnostic importance in psychotic disorders and particularly in schizophrenia, paraphrenia, manic episodes of bipolar disorder, and psychotic depression.
Contents [hide]
1 Definition
2 Types
3 Diagnosis
4 Development of specific delusions
5 Causes
6 See also
7 References
8 Further reading
[edit]Definition

Although non-specific concepts of madness have been around for several thousand years, the psychiatrist and philosopher Karl Jaspers was the first to define the three main criteria for a belief to be considered delusional in his 1917 book General Psychopathology. These criteria are:
certainty (held with absolute conviction)
incorrigibility (not changeable by compelling counterargument or proof to the contrary)
impossibility or falsity of content (implausible, bizarre or patently untrue)
These criteria still continue in modern psychiatric diagnosis. The most recent Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders defines a delusion as:
A false belief based on incorrect inference about external reality that is firmly sustained despite what almost everybody else believes and despite what constitutes incontrovertible and obvious proof or evidence to the contrary. The belief is not one ordinarily accepted by other members of the person’s culture or subculture.
There is controversy over this definition, as ‘despite what almost everybody else believes’ implies that a person who believes something most others do not is a candidate for delusional thought. Furthermore, while the above three criteria are usually attributed to Jaspers, he himself described them as only ‘vague’ and merely ‘external’.[1] He also wrote that, since the genuine or ‘internal’ ‘criteria for delusion proper lie in the primary experience of delusion and in the change of the personality [and not in the above three loosely descriptive criteria], we can see that a delusion may be correct in content without ceasing to be a delusion, for instance - that there is a world-war.’.[2]
Furthermore, when a false belief involves a value judgment, it is only considered as a delusion if it is so extreme as to defy credibility. Since the delusional conviction occurs on a continuum, it can be inferred from an individual’s behavior many times. A delusion and an overvalued idea tend to confuse. The latter implies that the individual has an unreasonable belief or idea but does not hold it as firmly as when a delusion takes place.[3]
Delusions are not due to a medical condition or substance abuse and they may seem believable at face value. Also, patients usually appear normal as long as another person does not touch upon their delusional themes.[4]
Delusions are not tied to any particular disease and they usually occur in the context of neurological or mental illness. Also, they have been found to occur in the context of many pathological states.[5]
[edit]Types

Delusions are categorized into four different groups:
Bizarre delusion: A delusion that is very strange and completely implausible; an example of a bizarre delusion would be that aliens have removed the affected person’s brain.
Non-bizarre delusion: A delusion that, though false, is at least possible, e.g., the affected person mistakenly believes that he is under constant police surveillance.
Mood-congruent delusion: Any delusion with content consistent with either a depressive or manic state, e.g., a depressed person believes that news anchors on television highly disapprove of him, or a person in a manic state might believe he is a powerful deity.
Mood-neutral delusion: A delusion that does not relate to the sufferer’s emotional state; for example, a belief that an extra limb is growing out of the back of one’s head is neutral to either depression or mania.[6]
In addition to these categories, delusions often manifest according to a consistent theme. Although delusions can have any theme, certain themes are more common. Some of the more common delusion themes are:[6]
Delusion of control: This is a false belief that another person, group of people, or external force controls one’s thoughts, feelings, impulses, or behavior.
Nihilistic delusion: A person with this type of delusion may have the false belief that the world is ending.
Delusional jealousy (or delusion of infidelity): A person with this delusion falsely believes a spouse or lover is having an affair.
Delusion of guilt or sin (or delusion of self-accusation): This is a false feeling of remorse or guilt of delusional intensity.
Delusion of mind being read: The false belief that other people can know one’s thoughts.
Delusion of reference: The person falsely believes that insignificant remarks, events, or objects in one’s environment have personal meaning or significance.
Erotomania A delusion where someone believes another person is in love with him.
Grandiose delusion: An individual is convinced he has special powers, talents, or abilities. Sometimes, the individual may actually believe he or she is a famous person or character (for example, a rock star).
Persecutory delusion: These are the most common type of delusions and involve the theme of being followed, harassed, cheated, poisoned or drugged, conspired against, spied on, attacked, or obstructed in the pursuit of goals.
Religious delusion: Any delusion with a religious or spiritual content. These may be combined with other delusions, such as grandiose delusions (the belief that the affected person is a god, or chosen to act as a god, for example).
Somatic delusion: A delusion whose content pertains to bodily functioning, bodily sensations, or physical appearance. Usually the false belief is that the body is somehow diseased, abnormal, or changed—for example, infested with parasites.

Maybe I was just referring to the Delusional Atheist as an Atheist whom believes that he’s right in thinking that he somehow has the ability to know that he’s 100% correct without any possibility for mistake.

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Posted: 23 December 2010 11:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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As long as you are using Dictionary.com for definitions;

atheist-a·the·ist  /ˈeɪθiɪst/ Show Spelled[ey-thee-ist]
–noun
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Ergo, I am an Atheist.
I see nothing about 100% surety.

Agnostic-ag·nos·tic/ægˈnɒstɪk/ Show Spelled[ag-nos-tik]
–noun
1.a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as god, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.
2.a person who denies or doubts the possibility of ultimate knowledge in some area of study.

My ‘belief’ is a reasonable ‘If you can show me compelling proof that 1+1=1760, I will change my mind’. I don’t dwell on whether 1+1=1760, I don’t even wonder if 1+1 will ever be found to be 1760. I don’t believe there is any evidence to prove 1+1=1760.

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Posted: 23 December 2010 11:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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asanta - 23 December 2010 11:07 PM

As long as you are using Dictionary.com for definitions;

atheist-a·the·ist  /ˈeɪθiɪst/ Show Spelled[ey-thee-ist]
–noun
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Ergo, I am an Atheist.
I see nothing about 100% surety.

Agnostic-ag·nos·tic/ægˈnɒstɪk/ Show Spelled[ag-nos-tik]
–noun
1.a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as god, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.
2.a person who denies or doubts the possibility of ultimate knowledge in some area of study.

My ‘belief’ is a reasonable ‘If you can show me compelling proof that 1+1=1760, I will change my mind’. I don’t dwell on whether 1+1=1760, I don’t even wonder if 1+1 will ever be found to be 1760. I don’t believe there is any evidence to prove 1+1=1760.

LOL Ok Asanta! I acknowledge that you can be a Strong Atheist and still say that you’re not 100% sure. My only beef with the term Strong/Weak Atheist, is that it seems to appeal to ego.

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Posted: 24 December 2010 12:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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ExMachina - 23 December 2010 11:37 PM

LOL Ok Asanta! I acknowledge that you can be a Strong Atheist and still say that you’re not 100% sure. My only beef with the term Strong/Weak Atheist, is that it seems to appeal to ego.

EM. I’m NOT saying I’m not 100% sure. Do you remember the theories on the end of the Age of Dinosaurs? There was a theory (among others) that a large volcano erupted and triggered a mass extinction. When I was in high school, we were taught a large eruption causing the extinction.

In 1980 (long after I graduated HS) father and son, Luis and Walter Alvarez noted a layer of iridium deposited evenly over the earth at the K-T boundary and posited a large meteor impact. Scientist asked “Where is the crater”? In 1990, Alan Hildebrande found the crater off the coast of the Yucatan Peninsula. Now, it is accepted that a large meteor struck the earth and caused the extinctions.
Bird evolution has also gone through a major change. Most scientists, when I was in HS thought birds evolved from small bird like creatures. Now we know these bird like creatures were descended from a dinosaur!

People were sure of one thing, and compelling evidence was presented to prove another theory which may not have been considered, and changed science. I believe there is NO god. I am SURE there are no gods. But if you smacked me in the face with compelling evidence, I would be an idiot to ignore it. THAT is what I mean by a ‘strong’ Atheist. And No, it is not about ego, it is about evidence…actually, LACK of evidence.

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Posted: 24 December 2010 01:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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I don’t really understand this parsing of the word atheist . Is not it a word that connotes the opinion of a person based on what is to them a preponderance of evidence? One of the perrenial effects I see coming up in this conversation is some kind of grammatical segue if the word ‘belief’ is used. *Everything* we do is based on some kind of belief - the word is not purely in the purview of religion.

It’s a simple term . I am an atheist - I don’t believe in the existance of deity(ies). I don’t spend a lot of time thinking about something I don’t believe exists. The tooth-fairy, Santa or the easter bunny don’t seem to even come up that much in my thinking processes. When I’m feeling less than charitable I start to think that non-atheists are somehow looking for the slightest edge to stick a crowbar in and by using terms like ‘weak’ or ‘deluded’, it can give this edge to pry apart an opinion someone may hold. I simply don’t understand what on earth difference it makes. I’ve never had anyone try to nail my feet to the floor on why I don’t think Thor , pixies, Kuan Yin , unicorns or vampires exist, so why the pressure to ‘prove’ or solidify my opinion on deity? It put me in mind of this article by Greta Christina on why religious people seek atheist acceptance:

http://www.alternet.org/story/148984/

( always sure to get a storm of tomatoes )

I’ve always said if the deity phone rings I’ll answer but I’m not staying home just in case it does smile so why are non-atheists trying to test or label the sincerity of my atheism? Serious question.

Pelagic

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Posted: 24 December 2010 01:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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pelagic - 24 December 2010 01:29 AM

I don’t really understand this parsing of the word atheist . Is not it a word that connotes the opinion of a person based on what is to them a preponderance of evidence? One of the perrenial effects I see coming up in this conversation is some kind of grammatical segue if the word ‘belief’ is used. *Everything* we do is based on some kind of belief - the word is not purely in the purview of religion.

It’s a simple term . I am an atheist - I don’t believe in the existance of deity(ies). I don’t spend a lot of time thinking about something I don’t believe exists. The tooth-fairy, Santa or the easter bunny don’t seem to even come up that much in my thinking processes. When I’m feeling less than charitable I start to think that non-atheists are somehow looking for the slightest edge to stick a crowbar in and by using terms like ‘weak’ or ‘deluded’, it can give this edge to pry apart an opinion someone may hold. I simply don’t understand what on earth difference it makes. I’ve never had anyone try to nail my feet to the floor on why I don’t think Thor , pixies, Kuan Yin , unicorns or vampires exist, so why the pressure to ‘prove’ or solidify my opinion on deity? It put me in mind of this article by Greta Christina on why religious people seek atheist acceptance:

http://www.alternet.org/story/148984/

( always sure to get a storm of tomatoes )

I’ve always said if the deity phone rings I’ll answer but I’m not staying home just in case it does smile so why are non-atheists trying to test or label the sincerity of my atheism? Serious question.

Pelagic

Great answer!! grin

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Posted: 24 December 2010 01:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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ExMachina - 23 December 2010 10:24 PM

Maybe I was just referring to the Delusional Atheist as an Atheist whom believes that he’s right in thinking that he somehow has the ability to know that he’s 100% correct without any possibility for mistake.

That’s fine and I don’t know about you but I have NEVER met (in real life or otherwise) an atheist that takes that stance ... not one. I’ve not even heard of any that take that view IOW every atheist I know will concede the possibility of deity as a hypothetical (and I don’t mean in a scientific sense) possibility. None of which is to say that an atheist can’t personally believe (without claiming as true) that there is no god.

Keke

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(Insanity, the only answer in a world insane!)

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Posted: 25 December 2010 08:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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Kyuuketsuki UK - 24 December 2010 01:42 AM
ExMachina - 23 December 2010 10:24 PM

Maybe I was just referring to the Delusional Atheist as an Atheist whom believes that he’s right in thinking that he somehow has the ability to know that he’s 100% correct without any possibility for mistake.

That’s fine and I don’t know about you but I have NEVER met (in real life or otherwise) an atheist that takes that stance ... not one. I’ve not even heard of any that take that view IOW every atheist I know will concede the possibility of deity as a hypothetical (and I don’t mean in a scientific sense) possibility. None of which is to say that an atheist can’t personally believe (without claiming as true) that there is no god.

Keke

With your forgiveness-I claim to be that atheist. I am 100% certain there is no god.

Are you 100% certain that if you hit an egg with a hammer it will break?
Are you 100% certain that there isn’t a floating ball of silver that appears behind your back when nobody else is looking, and floats out of your view if you turn around or crane your neck. And everyone has one of these floating balls-but nobody can see them?
Are you 100% certain that if you place an ice-cube in a 350 Deg. F. oven it will melt?
I’m 100% certain of all of the above. I’d like to think you are too. Yes?  No?
Let’s face it, other than some smarmy answer, or some geeky, non-applicable, vacuous side-tracking, you are 100% certain of these things too!
So! Carrying on with this…
This is my question to any of you: Please answer it directly. Read the question carefully and answer it literally.
If you realize that there are many, many things you can be 100% certain of…what are the reason(s) you can’t be 100% certain there is no god?

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Posted: 26 December 2010 05:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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VYAZMA - 25 December 2010 08:43 AM

Are you 100% certain that if you hit an egg with a hammer it will break?[

No

VYAZMA - 25 December 2010 08:43 AM

Are you 100% certain that there isn’t a floating ball of silver that appears behind your back when nobody else is looking, and floats out of your view if you turn around or crane your neck. And everyone has one of these floating balls-but nobody can see them?

No

VYAZMA - 25 December 2010 08:43 AM

Are you 100% certain that if you place an ice-cube in a 350 Deg. F. oven it will melt?

No

VYAZMA - 25 December 2010 08:43 AM

I’m 100% certain of all of the above. I’d like to think you are too. Yes?  No?

No but I am reasonably sure and that’s the point ... I am only reasonably sure.

VYAZMA - 25 December 2010 08:43 AM

what are the reason(s) you can’t be 100% certain there is no god?

I can’t be because it is just barely possible there might be!

Keke

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(Insanity, the only answer in a world insane!)

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Posted: 26 December 2010 05:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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I guess the difference among us atheists is how many significant figures we deal with and whether we round up or down. LOL

100%  ≈  99.999999999%  ≈  99.999%  ≈  99.9%  ≈ 99%  ≈ 90%  

Occam

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Posted: 26 December 2010 08:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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Occam. - 26 December 2010 05:19 PM

I guess the difference among us atheists is how many significant figures we deal with and whether we round up or down. LOL

100%  ≈  99.999999999%  ≈  99.999%  ≈  99.9%  ≈ 99%  ≈ 90%  

Exactly! Sometimes it seems that’s the only real difference between being an atheist and an agnostic. LOL

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Posted: 26 December 2010 08:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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Occam. - 26 December 2010 05:19 PM

I guess the difference among us atheists is how many significant figures we deal with and whether we round up or down. LOL

100%  ≈  99.999999999%  ≈  99.999%  ≈  99.9%  ≈ 99%  ≈ 90%  

Occam

I round UP! grin

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Posted: 26 December 2010 08:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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Ah never knew you’ns were a Texan, and a cowgirl at that.  Git along, little doggies. 

Sorry, can’t help being a W-A.  LOL

And that reminds me - where’s Darron been lately?

Occam

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