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International Solidarity for Secularism
Posted: 14 January 2011 12:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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George - 13 January 2011 06:32 PM
Write4U - 13 January 2011 05:23 PM

And I certainly agree that change should not come by force, but by reason, which takes time.

Except for reason being the product of the change, not its cause.

Reason is a product of Atheism? Or is Atheism a product of reason?

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Posted: 14 January 2011 07:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Atheism and religion are a product of many things. I know that in the Czech Republic, for example, the very small number of people who are religious, are people of an average intelligence. People with degrees and those with a basic education are atheists. Our society (and our brain) is a complex labyrinth and it will take more time to figure out what exactly causes what.

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Posted: 14 January 2011 07:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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Also, don’t forget that the vast majority of the suicide bombers are people with usually a higher level of education (in most cases a scientific education) who grew up without much of religious indoctrination.

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Posted: 14 January 2011 10:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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I agree with all of the above. Not all reasonable people are educated, not all educated people are reasonable.

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Posted: 14 January 2011 11:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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I would venture that the best way to stop suicide bombings is a job, a wife, and two kids….

Would you explain a little more about ‘change b4 reason’? Could you use Copernicus as an example?

And your also saying psychology and anthropology are immutable to change/progress?

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Posted: 14 January 2011 12:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Underground if neccessary, I think a radio station can bring about political progress, multiethnic musics and open/honest debates…

Another idea would be a ‘freedom from religion’ day (maybe the day after christmas?),, that would be holidayizeing when/who discovered the Sun is a Star.  Cuz if your religion doesn’t say that the Sun is a Star (4 words) then your religion is a crock….

This seems a little awkward, I just read “Your Religion is False” by Joel Grus pointing out that the old testament has gad making day and night three days before he makes the Sun and Moon. I don’t remeber where/when I learned that the jewish calendar is based on a 17 year cycle… Gawd doesn’t know how many days are in a year? You need a PhD to figure out your days of worship?

If I were of jewish decent I think I would call my self Israeli..

[ Edited: 14 January 2011 01:43 PM by tirebiter4659 ]
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Posted: 20 January 2011 11:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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tirebiter4659 - 14 January 2011 11:45 AM

Would you explain a little more about ‘change b4 reason’?

It just so occurred to me that those who believe that people can change by using reason (which many argue can be taught) are, in a way, falling for Lamarck’s ideas on how we change and evolve. It really doesn’t differ much from believing that a giraffe’s neck will become longer as a result of reaching for a leaf in higher trees. I know some might object and say that the brain has a greater deal of plasticity than the neck, nevertheless, the spectrum allowed by this plasticity is certainly limited.

This is why the vast majority of Arabs will have a great difficulty adopting to the Western society, no matter how much education they might receive. Their reason evolved under different cultural (environmental) circumstances and no matter how much “neck stretching” they are engaged in, only some will adopt, resulting in some kind of illusion where education made it possible to acquire what we refer to as reason, i.e, our reason.

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Posted: 20 January 2011 12:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Oh, just a small note—not that it’s really relevant here—but the idea of inheritance of acquired characteristics (a giraffe getting a longer neck from stretching it) doesn’t really belong to Lamarck. Before Darwin’s book, everybody believed it. But Lamarck used it to explain his theory of evolution (transmutation) and so he is now credited with it.

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Posted: 20 January 2011 04:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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And don’t forget Lysenko, George. smile

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Posted: 20 January 2011 07:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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Occam. - 20 January 2011 04:46 PM

And don’t forget Lysenko, George. smile

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Well, yes. Trying to reeducate wheat or the moral code in Pashtun is equally futile.

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