Tucson assassinations

opinion

American Humanist Association
JANUARY 10, 2011 12:56PM
Chain of causation goes way beyond Palin

Beyond Palin: Understanding the Tragedy in Tucson
All of us at the AHA were devastated to learn about the recent tragedy in Arizona, and our thoughts are with the victims and their families. AHA President David Niose delves deeper into the issue to explain how we can create a more civil discourse to prevent such tragedies from happening again.

http://tinyurl.com/4g3gfjn

http://open.salon.com/blog/dave_niose/2011/01/10/chain_of_causation_goes_way_beyond_palin?chid=1

As I stated elsewhere, all this recent talk of wanting to “tone down” political rhetoric is nothing more than an attack on free speech.  It is also completely partisan and hypocritical as the left’s just-as-violent rhetoric of the past few years shows.  It is also a showing of the complete lack of the history of the U.S.  People often pine for “the good ole days.”  But human nature is human nature.  There is nothing more inherently worse today than there was years or decades ago. 

Of words, just a small sampling:

“That dark designing sordid ambitious vain proud arrogant and vindictive knave.”
—General Charles Lee about George Washington

“God damn your god damned old hellfired god damned soul to hell god damn you and god damn your god damned family’s god damned hellfired god damned soul to hell and good damnation god damn them and god damn your god damned friends to hell.”
—Peter Muggins, American citizen, letter to President Abraham Lincoln

“Filthy Story-Teller, Despot, Liar, Thief, Braggart, Buffoon, Usurper, Monster, Ignoramus Abe, Old Scoundrel, Perjurer, Robher, Swindler, Tyrant, Field-Butcher, Land-Pirate.”
—Harper’s Weekly on Abraham Lincoln

“Garfield has shown that he is not possessed of the backbone of an angleworm.”
—Ulysses S. Grant 18th U.S. president, about James A. Garfield, 20th U.S. president
 
“He’s thin, boys. He’s thin as piss on a hot rock.”
Senator William E. Jenner on W. Averell Harriman, governor of New York

“How can they tell?”
—Dorothy Parker on hearing that American President Calvin Coolidge had died

Of actions:

In 1856, Congressman Preston Brooks beat Senator Charles Sumner with a cane on the Senate floor.

Vice-President, Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamiltion, had a freaking duel for crying out loud! Hamilton died as a result of a gunshot wound from the Vice-President.

The U.S. Capitol Shootings of 1954.

The assassination of President John Kennedy.

The assassination of Bobby Kennedy.

For some reason many people seem to think things are always getting worse.  I suspect our 24 hour news coverage simply makes it appear that way.  But the “good ole days” usually were not that good at all.

Rocinante, the examples you gave it the other thread were rather lame as far as political rhetoric goes. The word “target” has several different meanings, only one of which involves violence. The right-wing noise machine has been getting ever more strident since Obama’s election. Inciting to violence is not protected speech. Telling people to tone down hate speech and subtle references to violence is not an attack on free speech.

Equating the examples you provided with the rhetoric of Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin is ridiculous.

As expected, Rocinante appears to have a twisted view of reality.  There was no mention of “the good old days in the post”.  I don’t waste my time going to links.  I figure if the poster can’t state his opinion in the post, tough, so I respond to that, not to various links.  (And, yes, that was a criticism of those who like to put up links rather than thinking for themselves.)

Second, I notice that half of the quotations about words were directed at a person who was subsequently assassinated. 

As I see it, we should look forward, not backward and aim for helping our citizens become more reasonable and tolerant of those who have views different from theirs. 

Occam

Hello Rocinante, et. al.

I really tend to agree with you.
It’s not something new. The degree of violent or hateful speech is always “out there” in one degree or another. It may seem at it’s ebb now, but historically, it’s probably been worse. Unfortunately, unnecessary demonizing is part of the game. I’m all for a moment of silence. But I think I’m realistic enough to know it will change nothing. One of the most liberal politicians in Congress said so this morning. (Maxine Waters. KPFK.org 7:00 am)

I do feel I have to admit, that I found some of your comments about the left a bit gratuitous or ad hominem . I don’t recall any progressives or folks on the left using the imagery, verbal or otherwise, of assault and violence against political adversaries. If anything, progressives plead for dialog, reason and sanity.

I found this story reflect to about 100 years ago to another assassination attempt. Much the same rhetoric.

- - -

For Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck, a McKinley moment?

By Dana Milbank
Tuesday, January 11, 2011;

If any good can come of the horror in Tucson, it will be that this becomes a McKinley moment for Sarah Palin and her chief spokesman, Glenn Beck.

One hundred and ten years ago, during another low point in the nation’s political discourse, newspapers owned by William Randolph Hearst - who was angling for a presidential run in 1904 - published a pair of columns fantasizing about violence against President William McKinley.

Columnist Ambrose Bierce wrote that a bullet “is speeding here to stretch McKinley on his bier.” Next, an unsigned column widely attributed to Hearst editor Arthur Brisbane declared: “If bad institutions and bad men can be got rid of only by killing, then the killing must be done.” Six months later, a deranged man named Leon Czolgosz assassinated McKinley.

web address:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/10/AR2011011005321.html

- - Gary

Dear Occam,

The reason I only put in the link to the American Humanist Association, was not so much because of what was written but because I thought a statement from the President of a Humanist organization might be relevant here.  I wasn’t expecting people to launch into a critique of the statement. It was just meant as a notice that American Humanists have made something of an official response. I haven’t seen one yet from Center for Inquiry, but perhaps one will be forth coming.

As for not reading the links, I do tend to quote from links, that part that I feel most pertinent or that most resonates with my own feelings.
So I guess if you only want to respond (if at all) to that, that’s okay by me.

But as I said, I didn’t post the link to the AHA statement as a call for opinions or debate on this forum, just to post the notice.

When did this group become acrimonious? Is this a new trend? Or does Rocinante have a tendency to kick up dust in people’s faces?

Well, for my part, I tried to be conciliatory.

bye now…

Gary

gary100 - 11 January 2011 06:35 PM

I don’t recall any progressives or folks on the left using the imagery, verbal or otherwise, of assault and violence against political adversaries. If anything, progressives plead for dialog, reason and sanity.

“If we were killing off useless people, you’d be the first to know.” [Emphasis added.]
- Bill Maher (to Sarah Palin)

“A message to progressives: By all means, hang Senator Joe Lieberman in effigy...” Emphasis added.]
–Paul Krugman, December 17, 2009.

After Bill Mahr said to Senator John Kerry, “You could have went to New Hampshire and killed two birds with one stone,”  Kerry replied,  “Or, I could have gone to 1600 Pennsylvania and killed the real bird with one stone.”  [emphasis added.]

Then there is Nobel Peace Prize laureate Betty Williams who said at the International Women’s Peace Conference, “I mean right now, I could kill George Bush, no problem. No, I don’t mean that. I mean — how could you nonviolently kill somebody? I would love to be able to do that.” [Emphasis added.]

“Are you angry? [Yeah!] Are you angry? [Yeah!] Are you angry? [Yeah!] Well, we’ve been watching intifada in Palestine, we’ve been watching an uprising in Iraq, and the question is that what are we doing? How come we don’t have an intifada in this country? ...it’s about time that we have an intifada in this country that change[s] fundamentally the political dynamics in here. And we know every—They’re gonna say some Palestinian being too radical—well, you haven’t seen radicalism yet.”
—U.C. Berkeley Lecturer Hatem Bazian fires up the crowd at an anti-war rally by calling for an American intifada [Emphasis added.]

“I hear about Tony Snow and say to myself, well, stand up every day, lie to the American people at the behest of your dictator-esque boss and well, how could a cancer NOT grow in you. Work for Fox News, spinning the truth in to a billion knots and how can your gut not rot? I know, it’s terrible. I admit it. I don’t wish anyone harm, even Tony Snow. And I do hope he recovers or at least does what he feels is best and surrounds himself with friends and family for his journey. But in the back of my head there’s Justin Timberlake’s “What goes around, goes around, comes around, comes all the way back around, ya.”
—Charles Karel Bouley

“For those of you who do, as a matter of principle, oppose war in any form, the idea of supporting a conscientious objector who’s already been inducted [and] in his combat service in Iraq might have a certain appeal. But let me ask you this: Would you render the same support to someone who hadn’t conscientiously objected, but rather instead rolled a grenade under their line officer in order to neutralize the combat capacity of their unit?”
—University Professor Ward Churchill on supporting soldiers who frag their officers

“If I had my way, I would see Katherine Harris and Ken Blackwell strapped down to electric chairs and lit up like Christmas trees. The better to light the way for American Democracy and American Freedom!” {Emphasis added.]
—Democratic Talk Radio’s Stephen Crockett

“Real freedom will come when [U.S.] soldiers in Iraq turn their guns on their superiors.”

—Warren County Community College adjunct English professor, John Daly

“A friend of ours said if the same laws were applied to U.S. Presidents as were applied to the Nazis after WWII, that every single one of them, every last rich white one of them, from Truman on would be hung to death and shot. And this current administration is no exception. They should be hung and tried and shot as war criminals.”
—Zack de la Rocha, Rage Against The Machine

“I’m glad [Al Qaeda terrorists] finally have a chance to see you, Mr. Addington.”
—Bill Delahunt, D-Massachusetts hopes to get one of Dick Cheney’s aides killed by Al-Qaeda

“Republicans don’t believe in the imagination, partly because so few of them have one, but mostly because it gets in the way of their chosen work, which is to destroy the human race and the planet. Human beings, who have imaginations, can see a recipe for disaster in the making; Republicans, whose goal in life is to profit from disaster and who don’t give a hoot about human beings, either can’t or won’t. Which is why I personally think they should be exterminated before they cause any more harm.”
—The Village Voice’s Michael Feingold, in a theater review of all places [Emphasis added.]

“If I got (Condi Rice) a** on camera, I would put my Mars Air Jordans so far up her butt that the Mayo Clinic would have to remove them.”
—Spike Lee

“Why couldn’t, uh, why couldn’t have (Rush Limbaugh) croaked from it instead of Heath Ledger?”
—Bill Maher

“I have zero doubt that if Dick Cheney was not in power, people wouldn’t be dying needlessly tomorrow….I’m just saying if he did die, other people, more people would live. That’s a fact.” [Emphasis added.]
—Bill Maher

“I used to have violence fantasies about Scott McClellan because of the inpenetrable wall of idiocy and supposed ignorance, some of which was probably not supposed, that behind which he used to hide at every press conference. All those feelings are being shifted now to Dana Perino, violence fantasies.” [Emphasis added.]
—Liberal radio host, Mike Malloy

“Drudge? Aw, Drudge, somebody ought to wrap a strong Republican entrail around his neck and hoist him up about six feet in the air and watch him bounce.” [Emphasis added.]
—Liberal radio host, Mike Malloy

“Capital punishment? I think that if, if I’ve got to find that guy in Spain who indicted Pinochet and get him for war crimes, and I get him to do the same thing for Bush. And in that case, I would be for capital punishment. Otherwise, I am against it.” [Emphasis added.]
—New York gubernatorial Green Party candidate Malachy McCourt on The Chris Matthews show

“Because filing briefs don’t stop bullets, and when the ballot box fails us, we are not above seeing what’s in the ammo box.” [Emphasis added.]
—Daily Kos diarist, pinche tejano

“A spoiled child (Bush) is telling us our Social Security isn’t safe anymore, so he is going to fix it for us. Well, here’s your answer, you ungrateful whelp: [audio sound of 4 gunshots being fired.] Just try it, you little b*stard. [audio of gun being cocked].” [Emphasis added.]
—The Randi Rhodes show

“It’s good (Michelle Malkin’s) in D.C. and I’m in New York. I’d spit on her if I saw her.”
—Geraldo Rivera

“Check out this startling excerpt from George Monbiot’s new book Heat. It’s about the climate-change “denial industry,” which most of you are probably familiar with. What you may not know about is the peculiar role of the tobacco industry in the whole mess. I’ve read about this stuff for years and even I was surprised by some of the details. When we’ve finally gotten serious about global warming, when the impacts are really hitting us and we’re in a full worldwide scramble to minimize the damage, we should have war crimes trials for these b*stards—some sort of climate Nuremberg.” [Emphasis added.]
—David Roberts, Grist Magazine

  “..And then there’s Rumsfeld who said of Iraq ‘We have our good days and our bad days.’ We should put this S.O.B. up against a wall and say ‘This is one of our bad days’ and pull the trigger. Do you want to salvage our country? Be a savior of our country? Then vote for John Kerry and get rid of the whole Bush Bunch.” [Emphasis added.]
—From a fund raising ad put out by the St. Petersburg Democratic Club

“F*** God D*mned Joe the God D*mned Motherf*cking plumber! I want Motherf*cking Joe the plumber dead.”
—Liberal talk show host Charles Karel Bouley on the air.

“I think Rush Limbaugh was the 20th hijacker but he was just so strung out on Oxycontin he missed his flight. ... Rush Limbaugh, I hope the country fails, I hope his kidneys fail, how about that?” [Emphasis added.]
—Wanda Sykes

“I have to tell you, Rush Limbaugh is looking more and more like Mr. Big, and at some point somebody’s going to jam a CO2 pellet into his head and he’s going to explode like a giant blimp. That day may come. Not yet. But we’ll be there to watch. I think he’s Mr. Big, I think Yaphet Kotto. Are you watching, Rush?” [Emphasis added.]
—Chris Matthews

Republican HQ Manager’s Home Shot Up Over McCain Signs
—Source.

Shots fired at Knoxville Bush-Cheney office
—Source.

“Time for Obama to go ‘gangsta’ on GOP”
—Roland Martin

“Obama better start breaking kneecaps.”
—David Bougeois

“Shoot him with a .44 caliber Bulldog.”
—Spike Lee talking about Charlton Heston

“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,”
—Barack Obama about how to fight with Republicans.

Democratic Congresswoman’s son and 3 Democratic campaign workers slashed the tires of 100 GOP cars
—Source.

Armed thugs intimidating voters at a polling place (and I highly doubt these people are Republicans)
—Source.

Union thugs ransacked and damaged a Bush/Cheney headquarters.
—Source.

More Democrats stormed and ransacked a Bush-Cheney headquarters building in Florida.
—Source.

A cinder block was thrown through another Republican headquarters in Arizona.
—Source.

A man tried to run down Republican Katherine Harris in his car claming he was exercising his “political expression.”
—Source.

100 years ago, when you called a politician a scurrilous knave, you wrote a letter to the editor, and it had a limited readership, limited exposure. Nowadays if you did the same thing, it would be recorded in every major paper, major network, tweeted and re-tweeted, all over the internet, on the radio and all of the news magazines. There is a BIG difference between the news reporting then, and now.

Rocinante:  It’s sad, but I thank you for your posting.  As a libertarian I just have to sit back and shake my head.  As you know, and I’ve shared with you, I’ve basically given up on posting here, because I see a lot of irrational posts, anti-intellectualism and a true lack of skepticism. 

After this shooting, the Left responded as I knew they would.  Every possibly argument you’d imagine a true skeptic (or libertarian) could make, could legitimately be made.  That the Unibomber was leftist, that Oswald was, that Lynette Alice “Squeaky” Fromme was, John Wilkes Booth (Democrat), etc etc etc.  That the Leftist media and the President made X comments after the Ft. Hood shooting, but yet here, made Y.  ALL THE HATEFUL things said about a woman named Sarah Palin.  That this guy who shot this woman (a conservative democrat, pro border security and guns), was leftist if anything, that he had targeted her as early as 2007, that he is a “flag-burner”, read the Communist Manifesto and Hitler’s book (National Socialist party of Germany, lest people forget), that he was an atheist apparently (associated with the Left, for good or bad)...and on and on and on. Everything you posted above.  How the Daily Kos said she was “dead” for not voting liberal enough, the “bullseye” the Democrat Party had on their web pages back in 2004, etc etc etc.  The hatred for anyone who does not agree with them, their patent and demonstrated racism (the KKK, Nathan Bedford Forrest, Margaret Sanger, Robert Byrd, Al Gore, Sr, Bully Conner…all democrats…MLK was a registered republican).  NO FACT, NO TRUTH, will ever dissuade a liberals agenda. 

I’ve have concluded, that many on the far Left, truly are ill.  They actually believe, like fundamentalist, what they say.  They completely forgo logic, measure, consistency, everything.  This is not to say that the far Right doesn’t have it’s nut jobs (usually religious), but alas, we know that, we expose that, we work through that.  You will NEVER convince a leftist (as many you see on here), no matter how many quotes, how many pictures of Bush being disrespected, etc, that there is any inconsistency in their behavior.

About the ONLY thing this guy could do that would make the Left change course on their opinions (and blaming Palin, and I am not even certain of that), is wake up tomorrow and claim he is a radical muslim…THEN they would defend HIM and NOT claim he was a right-winger. 

Face it, it’s been about ten years nearly since McVeigh was executed, and leftwingers STILL go around saying he was a racist right-winger, when the facts show was an atheist libertarian who had interracial relationships, etc.  He was just a nutjob, like Sirhan Sirhan. 

Anyhow..that’s why I have moved along.  thanks for your email and I am glad you are posting the truth on here.

Okay Rocinante,

You’ve made your point.
It must have taken a very long time over a long period of time to pull all these statements and images together.
Good job if that’s how you want to make your point. Do you obsess on collecting all these negative images of the left and protesters?

And I agree, most of these images and pictures are distasteful (one of the reasons I don’t like going to demonstrations is because it brings out the exhibitions who like to shock people with their immaturity.

But, sorry, I don’t think this is typical. And I certainly don’t think the occurrences are in equal proportion.
In my opinion, it’s much much more frequent on the right.

And let’s not forget. Bush was advocating torture and violence from the get go.

Gary

UlsterScots432 - 11 January 2011 07:57 PM

About the ONLY thing this guy could do that would make the Left change course on their opinions (and blaming Palin, and I am not even certain of that), is wake up tomorrow and claim he is a radical muslim…THEN they would defend HIM and NOT claim he was a right-winger.

Thank you for showing your deep-rooted prejudice against liberals. That comment puts your entire post in perspective.

Ulster, your post listing MLKjr, Lincoln etc as Republicans shows how little you know about the history of our country. My dad was Republican for the same reason. I don’t know whether to chalk your post up as historical ignorance, straw man, or perhaps you thought WE were ignorant of American history.

I hate to be a nit-picker about all of Rationalizer’s beautiful images of dangerous “liberal” signs, but one thing I noticed—about his particularly pointed, yet “unbiased” array—was that all of the, so-called, “death” threats made (against Bush?) were in reference to the death penalty as the result of war crimes he had committed; NOT POLITICAL ASSASSINATIONS. 

So, your case rests on G.W. Bush’s not having committed war crimes. 

Shall I name and you dispute a few such charges?

*shrugging shoulders*

DarronS - 11 January 2011 08:04 PM

UlsterScots432 - 11 January 2011 07:57 PM

About the ONLY thing this guy could do that would make the Left change course on their opinions (and blaming Palin, and I am not even certain of that), is wake up tomorrow and claim he is a radical muslim…THEN they would defend HIM and NOT claim he was a right-winger.

Thank you for showing your deep-rooted prejudice against liberals. That comment puts your entire post in perspective.

Ulster’s point was made, albeit unintentionally, by Asanta who posted this comment on the same day of the AZ shootings:

“Beck, Limbaugh,O’Reilly, Angle, Palin and Bachman, you now have a body count.” 

Yet one full week after the Fort Hoot shootings Asanta posted this:

“We do not have enough information about what truly happened to make a judgment of whether he was a discontent, terrorist, mentally ill or some other answer, or combination of answers. Already some of the things that were initially put out by the media have been found to be incorrect…We should reserve our judgment, until the truth about this tragedy has been sorted out.”

An Ulster, you were right.  I guess I was just a bit more optimistic than you that liberal skeptics could see past their politics and apply critical thinking to everything.  I guess I was wrong and you were correct.  :-(

As for all of you who are rationalizing the violent hatred coming from the left, I truly feel sorry for you.

Probably because he was outside the rhetorical bombast of Beck, Palin et al. Hello? Hello??

Thanks Rocinante

It doesn’t justify such rhetoric at all, but it shows it is a shared problem.