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Tucson assassinations
Posted: 12 January 2011 07:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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Jackson - 12 January 2011 04:17 AM

Thanks Rocinante

It doesn’t justify such rhetoric at all, but it shows it is a shared problem.

This is where I’m at in this discussion. I’m sorry, but I think both the reps and the dems play a role in this problem. The hate speech, lies, backbiting, and rhetoric is not anything new to our country (heck, there were times when it was even worse than this), but has really started to rise to a crescendo as of late. Trying to pinpoint Palin and colleagues, is, IMO, nothing more than a symptom of how biased both sides have become towards each other, without looking at their own hypocrosies. You can’t blame the dems or the reps for this kid’s actions, but you can blame them for fostering an overly hostile environment, which didn’t help things one bit.

There have been fistfights and attacks throughout this entire administration, so violence is not the part that is suprising. Its just sad that some nutjob had to take things to the next level before people opened their eyes. Unfortunately, while it has opened eyes, most of these eyes are now too focused in one direction, without seeing the broader spectrum.

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Posted: 12 January 2011 11:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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The Traveler - 12 January 2011 07:34 AM
Jackson - 12 January 2011 04:17 AM

Thanks Rocinante

It doesn’t justify such rhetoric at all, but it shows it is a shared problem.

This is where I’m at in this discussion. I’m sorry, but I think both the reps and the dems play a role in this problem. The hate speech, lies, backbiting, and rhetoric is not anything new to our country (heck, there were times when it was even worse than this), but has really started to rise to a crescendo as of late. Trying to pinpoint Palin and colleagues, is, IMO, nothing more than a symptom of how biased both sides have become towards each other, without looking at their own hypocrosies. You can’t blame the dems or the reps for this kid’s actions, but you can blame them for fostering an overly hostile environment, which didn’t help things one bit.

There have been fistfights and attacks throughout this entire administration, so violence is not the part that is suprising. Its just sad that some nutjob had to take things to the next level before people opened their eyes. Unfortunately, while it has opened eyes, most of these eyes are now too focused in one direction, without seeing the broader spectrum.

Both parties are players in this sad game, but IMO the right has a big lead in the hate-mongering.  Show me any left-of-center American website with crosshairs on “targeted” districts with the names of those targeted below.  Do I think this type of rhetoric made this kid go on a killing spree?  No, I don’t, but I do think that this level of vitriol (I love that word) leaves a lot to be desired.  My grandmother always said that"words are things, once they’re said you can’t control what they do.”

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Posted: 12 January 2011 11:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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TeachScience - 12 January 2011 11:04 AM
The Traveler - 12 January 2011 07:34 AM
Jackson - 12 January 2011 04:17 AM

Thanks Rocinante

It doesn’t justify such rhetoric at all, but it shows it is a shared problem.

This is where I’m at in this discussion. I’m sorry, but I think both the reps and the dems play a role in this problem. The hate speech, lies, backbiting, and rhetoric is not anything new to our country (heck, there were times when it was even worse than this), but has really started to rise to a crescendo as of late. Trying to pinpoint Palin and colleagues, is, IMO, nothing more than a symptom of how biased both sides have become towards each other, without looking at their own hypocrosies. You can’t blame the dems or the reps for this kid’s actions, but you can blame them for fostering an overly hostile environment, which didn’t help things one bit.

There have been fistfights and attacks throughout this entire administration, so violence is not the part that is suprising. Its just sad that some nutjob had to take things to the next level before people opened their eyes. Unfortunately, while it has opened eyes, most of these eyes are now too focused in one direction, without seeing the broader spectrum.

Both parties are players in this sad game, but IMO the right has a big lead in the hate-mongering.  Show me any left-of-center American website with crosshairs on “targeted” districts with the names of those targeted below.  Do I think this type of rhetoric made this kid go on a killing spree?  No, I don’t, but I do think that this level of vitriol (I love that word) leaves a lot to be desired.  My grandmother always said that"words are things, once they’re said you can’t control what they do.”

Teachscience, the democratic party has done everything but that. Palin just did it first. The dems have effectively aided the reps in creating and fostering such an environment anyways. Since it was posted before the shooting, dems are just using it against her as part of their political strategy to make her look bad. And please don’t tell me that you honestly think the dems are above such nonsense. Look, I don’t like Palin either, but I’m not going to let my bias cause me to overlook the bigger picture here.

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Don’t get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water. Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put water into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.

- Bruce Lee -

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Posted: 12 January 2011 12:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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TeachScience - 12 January 2011 11:04 AM

Both parties are players in this sad game, but IMO the right has a big lead in the hate-mongering.  Show me any left-of-center American website with crosshairs on “targeted” districts with the names of those targeted below.

 

Here a Democrat candidate for Congress puts a gun crosshair on the face of a Republican Congressman in a TV spot.  I already know the excuse people will give on this one..“But that’s not a website!  TeachScience specifically asked for a website!  That’s just a TV commercial!” grin

So since you asked about a website, here is one of the preeminent liberal websites that used the term “Target List” with Congresswoman Gifford’s name on the list as one of the “targets” (complete with bolding for “added emphasis.” [Bolded in original.]

The same liberal website had this about Giffords, but yanked it down after the shootings:

DailyKosPostaboutCongresswomanGiffords.png

You are simply a victim of Confirmation Bias when it comes to your belief that the political right is worse than the political left.  In this respect there is no difference between the two.

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Posted: 12 January 2011 01:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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Rocinante, you are repeating the same lame links you posted in another thread. These clearly show your confirmation bias. The words in the links you provided in no way match the rhetoric coming from the right wing.

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Posted: 12 January 2011 01:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Darron, do you think that the dems are above such nonsense?

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Don’t get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water. Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put water into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.

- Bruce Lee -

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Posted: 12 January 2011 01:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Pragmatic Naturalist - 11 January 2011 10:36 PM

I hate to be a nit-picker about all of Rationalizer’s beautiful images of dangerous “liberal” signs, but one thing I noticed—about his particularly pointed, yet “unbiased” array—was that all of the, so-called, “death” threats made (against Bush?) were in reference to the death penalty as the result of war crimes he had committed; NOT POLITICAL ASSASSINATIONS. 

So, your case rests on G.W. Bush’s not having committed war crimes. 

Shall I name and you dispute a few such charges?

*shrugging shoulders*

You left out that all the images were of individuals, not nationally syndicated media outlets and political campaigns, which is what we are seeing on the right.
For instance all the hysteria pre Obama about him wanting to take way our guns, that supercharged arms sales in this country.  He has been president a couple years and not one word about taking away our guns, but that sure didn’t do anything to tone down the fear mongering during the next election cycle.

Yes, hate and rage has been with us a long time, but the right has turned it into a calculated campaign strategy.  And we are just beginning to reap its rewards.  Hang on, since it appears they remain proud of that winning strategy.

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Posted: 12 January 2011 01:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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The Traveler - 12 January 2011 01:13 PM

Darron, do you think that the dems are above such nonsense?

I’m not Darron, but I would hope so.  Though the dems have been doing a lot of disappointing themselves.

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Posted: 12 January 2011 02:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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The supposed clogging of the courts aside, if one person publicly libels, slanders, lies about another, they should be taken to civil court and sued for damages. I would like to think this could make politics more honest?

If assault/murder are illegal isn’t carrying a sign promoteing that behavior complicit in a illegal act?  I think that most of us see that a sign saying “kill George Bush” should be illegal and not encouraged,,,, whereas a sign saying “George Bush should recieve the death penalty” would be legal and should be persued.

What do you think of my waveing a sign at a pro-life rally that says “Stop laws allowing child torture by christians Exo 21:17, Deut 21:20, Mark 7:10”


When I see states putting the 10 commandments is schools and courthouses,, I ask where do you draw the line?

I guess I should point out that when the bibble tells us to stone our children for insolence, rather than bash their brains out with a large stone, or cut their throats with a sharp stone,,, I think it is telling us that a regular stoneing can take a couple of days and is more of a torture/murdering of your kids rather than just strait forward murder. Is there a christian here who can clarify this a bit more?

[ Edited: 13 January 2011 08:01 AM by tirebiter4659 ]
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Posted: 16 January 2011 02:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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citizenschallenge.pm - 12 January 2011 01:51 PM

You left out that all the images were of individuals…

What a lovely example of Special Pleading: “Oh, it’s perfectly OK for lefties to threaten to kill Bush because they are just individuals!” rolleyes  Did you hurt yourself stretching on that one?  Thought experiment time:  Replace “Bush” with “Obama” in all those peace-loving, tolerant, compassionate individuals’ signs and would you still hold the same position? 

citizenschallenge.pm - 12 January 2011 01:51 PM

...not nationally syndicated media outlets and political campaigns, which is what we are seeing on the right.

This statement shows that you did not read the post.  In it (and others) you can find the following people making threats against Bush and Republicans:

Radio Talk Show Hosts (Mike Malloy, Randi Rhodes, Charles Karel Bouley)

A Writer for the New York Times (Paul Krugman)

Television Hosts (Chris Mathews, Bill Maher, Geraldo Rivera)

Politicians and related (St. Petersburg Democratic Club, Rep. Bill Delahunt, D., Sen. John Kerry, D., Rep. Harry Mitchell, D.)

Indeed, this lovely image of a Republican being targeted in the crosshairs came from a Democrat Political Campaign:
RepubicanJDHayworthinCrosshairs.jpg

This map of the United States predates Palin’s and is from the Democratic Leadership Committee’s Website:
DemocratTargetMap.gif

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There are more instances of the abridgement of the freedom of the people by the gradual and silent encroachment of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpation.

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