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Blame the Riots in Egypt on Twitter?
Posted: 28 January 2011 09:45 AM   [ Ignore ]
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Team W argued that the Bush doctrine convinced Egypt to reform or face America’s military might; Team O said Obama’s message of peace and change sparked the uprising; and Team Twitter credited—through grating condescension—social media for the riots.

Finally, Team Local Conditions presented a logical argument linking a deteriorating quality of life to the riots. Yet he was quickly interrupted, and the debate ended in baseless arguments.

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Posted: 28 January 2011 10:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Have to admit though since I tend to be anti-authoritarian I’m rooting for the rioters.

Very extreme economic inequality in Egypt. Bad thing is the US supports the current government to the tune of 2 billions a year.

If there comes a regime change the new government is not likely to be friendly with the US. We allow the ruling class in Egypt to become rich and powerful by selling to us it’s nations resources. Our government doesn’t seem very humanitarian except when it is in our financial interests.

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Posted: 28 January 2011 12:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Gnostikosis - 28 January 2011 10:22 AM

Have to admit though since I tend to be anti-authoritarian I’m rooting for the rioters.

Very extreme economic inequality in Egypt. Bad thing is the US supports the current government to the tune of 2 billions a year.

If there comes a regime change the new government is not likely to be friendly with the US. We allow the ruling class in Egypt to become rich and powerful by selling to us it’s nations resources. Our government doesn’t seem very humanitarian except when it is in our financial interests.

I am rooting for the rioter’s as well. I have been annoyed at Hilary Clinton’s press statements, because, once again, the states are not taking responsibility for their part in what is happening.

Poverty, either by design or neglect, is violence. It is a violent act against a population by their government, and I am never surprised when the population responds with violence.

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Posted: 28 January 2011 01:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Gnostikosis - 28 January 2011 10:22 AM

Very extreme economic inequality in Egypt. Bad thing is the US supports the current government to the tune of 2 billions a year.

What a curious thing to read after hearing that Republicans plan to block funding to the IPCC in order to save a whole 12.5 million. . . although funny that, over the years US has contributed between $200,000 and $5.6 million annually to the IPCC… the slobs can’t even do their math honestly.


http://yubanet.com/usa/Scientists-GOP-Efforts-to-Defund-Intergovernmental-Panel-on-Climate-Change-is-Foolhardy.php

http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/2011/01/20/house-republican-group-proposes-to-kill-ipcc-funding/

[ Edited: 28 January 2011 01:37 PM by citizenschallenge.pm ]
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Posted: 28 January 2011 02:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Not to worry!  Obama has voted “present” on the situation in Egypt just like he did when similar protests happened in Iran.

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There are more instances of the abridgement of the freedom of the people by the gradual and silent encroachment of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpation.

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Posted: 28 January 2011 05:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Bees Mom - 28 January 2011 12:28 PM
Gnostikosis - 28 January 2011 10:22 AM

Have to admit though since I tend to be anti-authoritarian I’m rooting for the rioters.

Very extreme economic inequality in Egypt. Bad thing is the US supports the current government to the tune of 2 billions a year.

If there comes a regime change the new government is not likely to be friendly with the US. We allow the ruling class in Egypt to become rich and powerful by selling to us it’s nations resources. Our government doesn’t seem very humanitarian except when it is in our financial interests.

I am rooting for the rioter’s as well. I have been annoyed at Hilary Clinton’s press statements, because, once again, the states are not taking responsibility for their part in what is happening.

Poverty, either by design or neglect, is violence. It is a violent act against a population by their government, and I am never surprised when the population responds with violence.

The Rome created it’s empire on war, violence and slavery. The US founded it nation on war, violence and slavery. I wonder if power and control is ever gain any other way? I was born into this situation and taught to accept the statues quo. I was groomed to find work in a capitalistic system were most of my money earned goes to either taxes or the profit of financial institutions.

I don’t have any real access to power or control however as long as I support the power and control that was established through violence, I have my “freedom”?

Might makes right doesn’t it? You can argue otherwise but it’s might that has gotten us here. I support the power and control of the government in exchange the government protects my freedom…

What if one chooses to no longer support the actions of their government? I have to wonder, the people of a nation, how much control, even in a democracy, do they actually have over government?

In Egypt they’ve shutdown the internet. Protesters were using it to organize and get the word out. There have been requests by our government to have a similar kill-switch setup. I suppose in case people in the US ever decided to riot?

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Posted: 29 January 2011 09:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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These protests are going on in several places in the Middle East.  Found this these morning:

http://www.britainnews.net/story/737683

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/01/29/egypt.middle.east.reaction/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/01/29/egypt.middle.east.reaction/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

Not much analysis as yet, but these demonstrations are not surprising considering the autocratic and corrupt governments involved.
From what I caught on the news last evening it appears the immediate causes are unemployment and rising food prices.  The demonstrators appear to be the middle-class rather than the usual religious groups.  The US is in a tough position as our support for the various undemocratic rulers over the years may be coming home to roost.

I am concerned about Saudi Arabia, which very little has been heard from as yet.  This is going to possibly have an effect on the price of oil as well as the Arab-Israeli conflict.  It will be interesting to see how the Arab leaders react as to this point they cannot lay the blame for this one on the Israeli’s. (And no I don’t support the Israeli’s and their land grabs.) 

“The Egyptian Opposition Leader and Nobel Peace laureate Mohamed ElBaradei has been placed under house arrest, a high-level security source told CNN on Friday.”  In my mind ElBaradei as he returned to Egypt to oppose Mubarak in the upcoming election, would be the natural leader of the protests movement, so the US may (and should) make a statement opposing his arrest. 

But generally, IMO, it is best for the US, at this point, to stay out of the way and let these people decide their own fate.

[ Edited: 29 January 2011 09:28 AM by garythehuman ]
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Posted: 30 January 2011 12:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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[quote author=“Gnostikosis” date=“1296279435”

The Rome created it’s empire on war, violence and slavery. The US founded it nation on war, violence and slavery. I wonder if power and control is ever gain any other way? I was born into this situation and taught to accept the statues quo. I was groomed to find work in a capitalistic system were most of my money earned goes to either taxes or the profit of financial institutions.

I don’t have any real access to power or control however as long as I support the power and control that was established through violence, I have my “freedom”?

Might makes right doesn’t it? You can argue otherwise but it’s might that has gotten us here. I support the power and control of the government in exchange the government protects my freedom…

What if one chooses to no longer support the actions of their government? I have to wonder, the people of a nation, how much control, even in a democracy, do they actually have over government?

In Egypt they’ve shutdown the internet. Protesters were using it to organize and get the word out. There have been requests by our government to have a similar kill-switch setup. I suppose in case people in the US ever decided to riot?

 

The US isn’t a democracy. Don’t feel bad, Canada isn’t either. They aren’t because the representatives aren’t representing the will of the people, and the electoral system is a joke.  A move towards a Single Transferable Vote http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_transferable_vote would be more democratic, but there exists so much corporate interest and lobbying that the whole system has broken down. Masses of people don’t vote, or voting is not made easy enough for them to vote, so that those elected represent the views of a minority.

Shutting down the internet hasn’t shut down the protests. They are still going strong and the idea is spreading.

What do you consider your rights? The ones the govt’s are protecting? Considering such things as the UN’s move to establish blasphemy laws, that the US still has the patriot act, and things like the horrible and illegal police acts against protesters at the G20 here , what rights are being protected? Sure, if your right is to go to a mall in your car, I guess they protect that. But freedom of speech? Freedom of assembly? Hilary was blowing smoke.

http://www.rabble.ca/news/2010/07/canadian-civil-liberties-association-files-complaints-against-g20-police
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/7559441-police-powers-for-g20-unnecessary-and-probably-illegal-ontario-ombudsman
http://www.iheu.org/belief-groups-unite-oppose-un-blasphemy-law

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Posted: 30 January 2011 12:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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The USA is, and has always been, a Republic.

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Church; where sheep congregate to worship a zombie on a stick that turns into a cracker on Sundays…

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Posted: 30 January 2011 01:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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asanta - 30 January 2011 12:56 AM

The USA is, and has always been, a Republic.

Exactly! smile

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Posted: 30 January 2011 04:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Rocinante - 28 January 2011 02:56 PM

Not to worry!  Obama has voted “present” on the situation in Egypt just like he did when similar protests happened in Iran.

And what do you suggest Obama “should do”......? It is an internal affair of a sovereign nation, with possible disasterous consequences for the entire region. This delicate situation calls for a neutral and non-active (other than diplomacy) involvement, lest we make it worse.  You should appreciate a nation’s right to sort out its own problems…no?

[ Edited: 30 January 2011 04:34 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 30 January 2011 04:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Bees Mom - 30 January 2011 01:55 AM
asanta - 30 January 2011 12:56 AM

The USA is, and has always been, a Republic.

Exactly! smile

Is there a practical difference between the terms Democracy and Republic? IMO, to say we are a democratic republic, would be redundant.

[ Edited: 30 January 2011 04:39 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 30 January 2011 04:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Write4U - 30 January 2011 04:31 PM
Rocinante - 28 January 2011 02:56 PM

Not to worry!  Obama has voted “present” on the situation in Egypt just like he did when similar protests happened in Iran.

And what do you suggest Obama “should do”......? It is an internal affair of a sovereign nation, with possible disasterous consequences for the entire region. This delicate situation calls for a neutral and non-active (other than diplomacy) involvement, lest we make it worse.  You should appreciate a nation’s right to sort out its own problems…no?


I agree with you. It has been US meddling that has caused such dictators to be in power. The very least the States can do is stop interfering in other nations like that.

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Posted: 30 January 2011 05:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Gnostikosis - 28 January 2011 10:22 AM

Have to admit though since I tend to be anti-authoritarian I’m rooting for the rioters.

Very extreme economic inequality in Egypt. Bad thing is the US supports the current government to the tune of 2 billions a year.

If there comes a regime change the new government is not likely to be friendly with the US. We allow the ruling class in Egypt to become rich and powerful by selling to us it’s nations resources. Our government doesn’t seem very humanitarian except when it is in our financial interests.

I agree. It’s labor repression, terrible economy, and political repression and political and economic discontent that has been simmering for a long time that has brought on the revolt.

To attribute this to twitter is an insult to the struggle of the people in the middle east under dictatorships.

What caused the ancient Spartacus revolt? That wasn’t twitter.

To attribute all this to modern communications technology is the arrogance of technophiles. (sorry for that little rant.)

Gary

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Posted: 30 January 2011 05:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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An unscientific observation.
I have been attempting to follow these developments on television.  When I tuned into CNN I got correspondents on the ground, Wolf Blitzer interviewing the Egyptian ambassador to the US etc.  When I clicked over to FOX to get their slant, their headline news was talking about a US military exercise, what are the best Buffalo wings to serve at your Super Bowl party, complaining about the lack of phosphates in dish soap.  The closest I heard on Fox to any analysis was one quick sarcastic remark about Joe Biden’s statement supporting Hosni Mubarak at the beginning of the crisis.  What’s with this?

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Posted: 30 January 2011 05:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Write4U - 30 January 2011 04:37 PM
Bees Mom - 30 January 2011 01:55 AM
asanta - 30 January 2011 12:56 AM

The USA is, and has always been, a Republic.

Exactly! smile

Is there a practical difference between the terms Democracy and Republic? IMO, to say we are a democratic republic, would be redundant.

Democracy
n., pl., -cies.

  1. Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.
  2. A political or social unit that has such a government.
  3. The common people, considered as the primary source of political power.
  4. Majority rule.
  5. The principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community.

Republic
n.

  1.
      1. A political order whose head of state is not a monarch and in modern times is usually a president.
      2. A nation that has such a political order.
  2.
      1. A political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them.
      2. A nation that has such a political order.

I do say there is a difference yes. I think under a real democracy, there would not be such a power imbalance. In a republic the body of citizens entitled to vote does not have to include everyone, and I would say that that represents a fundamental difference, especially in the states, where so many are divorced from the electoral process or from running their own candidates. Of course, I am in the camp that believes that when the founding fathers wrote the preamble, that all men are created equal, they meant all property owning, white men.


What’s more, there are great differences in types of democracy. Switzerland, for example, is a Direct Democracy. I would like to see a Socialist Democracy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_types_of_democracy

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