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Don Webb - Devil’s Advocate
Posted: 12 February 2011 10:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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I can’t imagine that any other CFI regular would have been so deferential to someone who believes in so much bullshit.  Price takes the tourist view toward the reality-challenged, as though they’re just interesting anthropological specimens.  He just observes that which really ought to be confronted.

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Posted: 12 February 2011 12:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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banyan - 12 February 2011 10:02 AM

I can’t imagine that any other CFI regular would have been so deferential to someone who believes in so much bullshit.  Price takes the tourist view toward the reality-challenged, as though they’re just interesting anthropological specimens.  He just observes that which really ought to be confronted.

Even if he hadn’t confronted them, Price could have used his knowledge of philosophy to help quantify the guy’s beliefs in a way that would be interesting for atheists and at least ask things like “what makes you believe in these deities” without making him defend his reasons. Instead, Price actually helped Webb bolster his credibility by discrediting “the other guy” (I know there’s a name for that fallacy, but I can’t remember it). The only on-topic questions were asked in the last 5 minutes, and Price actually sounded sympathetic to the answers, as if it were obviously true that subjective observations and results (of magic!) are just as valid as empirical ones and shouldn’t be pre-judged.

What bothers me most is that I recommended this show to a friend before listening to this episode, and now I will get to go back with embarrassment and explain that it wasn’t what I thought and that PoI really is an atheist/skeptic organization. I was originally excited because it sounded like the episode would illuminate the thought processes of a an atypical theist/deist/pantheist, and provide inspiration for thinking skeptically about unexpectedly convoluted belief systems; not a presentation on why the Temple of Set is so great.

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Posted: 19 February 2011 04:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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I was sort of surprised when he said there was no such thing as the San Francisco Ballet Orchestra.  I have friends who earn their living in this distinguished ensemble.


http://www.sfballet.org/about/orchestra.asp

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Posted: 19 February 2011 04:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Wolfman - 19 February 2011 04:18 PM

I was sort of surprised when he said there was no such thing as the San Francisco Ballet Orchestra.  I have friends who earn their living in this distinguished ensemble.


http://www.sfballet.org/about/orchestra.asp

I wonder what I was listening to, then, when I attended the ballet??

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Church; where sheep congregate to worship a zombie on a stick that turns into a cracker on Sundays…

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Posted: 27 February 2011 01:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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ABx009 - 11 February 2011 02:19 AM

I was extremely disappointed. The description/summary of the episode said:

Join host Robert Price as he interrogates this remarkable figure. How do you play Devil’s Advocate with a guy who has been an active practitioner of the Left Handed Path of magic for three decades?

Robert Price did the exact opposite, and even went so far as to feed into the guy’s arguments while he trashed the Laveyan side for being atheistic and non-mystical. Having read up on these guys some time ago, it seems that the Temple of Set folks identify themselves by bashing the Church of Satan. This show strikes me as Mr Price just giving the guy a podium from which to preach while he enjoyed the sermon. I glazed over his name when reading the description before listening, but I knew it was coming as soon as I heard his voice; he did similar in the Thomas J.J. Altizer interview.

I really hate these buddy-buddy interviews that seem like they are done solely for Mr Price’s own benefit. Every time I hear them I become less enthused about catching the next week’s show.


Would we go so far as to say Mr. Price was “held spellbound”?  Although used metaphorically here, such is literally what the Temple of Set has been all about from it’s founding with ties to some of the darkest aspects within U.S. spookdom.

Pooh-pooh you say?  Taken from the library of the Temple of Set (TOS):

http://www.xeper.org/maquino/nm/MindWar.pdf  (http://www.xeper.org/ is the official website for TOS)

The co-author of this article is none other than Michael A. Aquino who established the Temple of Set in 1975.  Even though I have only briefly scanned this text I must still conclude that Aquino is brilliant in a way that could make him either your best friend or your worst enemy.  Taken along with a scan of the .xeper.org other articles, I also conclude that these are very serious people who are definitely not “atheistic and non-mystical” as with the Church of Satan, but actually believe in what they are preaching.  As such their power is not to be found in whether their number remains relatively small, after all they did manage to land a friendly interview here in the very tent of the enemy, did they not?

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Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful. - Seneca (ca. 4 BC –AD 65)

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Posted: 27 February 2011 02:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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This actually just seems to be what Price does; assume he knows more than his audience, doesn’t do research, doesn’t try to inform the audience, and just talks to them the way he would at a dinner party with seeming disregard, and even disrespect, for those that he feels do not have an adequate background in philosophy (e.g., one can only be an atheist after believing and understanding theology). There wasn’t anything unusual about Price’s behavior, and it only serves to denigrate and discredit CFI; a high schooler would have done a better and more intelligent interview.

I really want to support the CFI, but the first time I recommend the show to someone it turns out to be this episode; an monumental embarrassment. How can I even consider donating, making more recommendations, or anything else now?

[ Edited: 27 February 2011 02:22 PM by ABx009 ]
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Posted: 27 February 2011 06:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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asanta - 11 February 2011 03:39 AM

I’m sorry to say, I have stopped listening to POI. I’m not enthused by the new hosts or most of their subject matter. I used to look forward to them…now I rarely listen, and only if there is a subject/person I really want to listen to. DJ introduced me to a lot of people and ideas. I’m just not getting that from the new group.

After this episode, I’m regretfully stopping as well. The whole thing is simply ridiculous. Beyond the whole “giving the soapbox to superstitious nutcakes without challenging them” issue, all this does is feed the fundagelical paranoia that atheists are just satanists in disguise.

Between Price’s long, rambling, unprepared discussions (which seem geared more at impressing the listener at how much of an “insider” he is than in really conveying any information) and Mooney’s total lack of credibility, the show has become less than a shadow of its former self. Instead of being an asset to the freethinking community, it is increasingly becoming a major liability.

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Posted: 27 March 2011 07:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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The Satanists I’ve known were decent people.  A bit out there with vengeance and fairly extreme pragmatism, but mostly decent.  They were Christian for certain, beware skeptics, Satanism is a branch of Christianity, believing in all the Christian ideas: God, Satan, Abraham, Noah and the flood, Genesis creation, Moses freed the Israelites, Jesus the son of god and man, Webb talked about self-sacrifice over animal sacrifice, etc., they were just rooting for the other guy, playing for the other team, the rational ideas (when in the desert, you eat the loaf of bread from Satan), over the spiritual ones (don’t eat the bread).  Allies against the Christian extremists, surely the Satanists are, but secular skeptics they are not.

Webb gave some very well put explanations, thank you.  Set was Egyptian, wow, thanks for the history lesson.  I guess I agree with many of the ideas, but the “technology” of magic, the need for chaos for creativity and inspiration, and a few of them I have to disagree with, speaking for myself.

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Posted: 03 July 2011 01:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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jump_in_the_pit - 27 March 2011 07:21 PM

The Satanists I’ve known were decent people.  A bit out there with vengeance and fairly extreme pragmatism, but mostly decent.  They were Christian for certain, beware skeptics, Satanism is a branch of Christianity, believing in all the Christian ideas: God, Satan, Abraham, Noah and the flood, Genesis creation, Moses freed the Israelites, Jesus the son of god and man, Webb talked about self-sacrifice over animal sacrifice, etc., they were just rooting for the other guy, playing for the other team, the rational ideas (when in the desert, you eat the loaf of bread from Satan), over the spiritual ones (don’t eat the bread).  Allies against the Christian extremists, surely the Satanists are, but secular skeptics they are not.

Webb gave some very well put explanations, thank you.  Set was Egyptian, wow, thanks for the history lesson.  I guess I agree with many of the ideas, but the “technology” of magic, the need for chaos for creativity and inspiration, and a few of them I have to disagree with, speaking for myself.

I’m several months late with this,however this podcast is somewhat misleading.Jump,what kind of satanists are you refering to?Members of the Temple of Set are not the same as members of the Church of Satan.The Church of Satan are complete 100% materialists.They believe in nothing supernatural at all,to them this universe is the only thing there is,and the only thing we are ever going to experience.Their talk of rituals and magic are purely for emotional satisfaction.You could say the Chuch of Satan are basically happy,productive,good humored ,life loving nihlists. The Temple of Set,they do believe in a supernatural being whom they identify as Set from Ancient Egyptian mythology. The founder Michael Aqino,was a member of the Church of Satan in the 70s,but he became disenfranchised with their naturalistic worldview and left acrimoniously. Devil worshippers,meaning those who literally believe in the devil are essentially Abrahamic religious followers,they choose to side with the bad guys in their view.Price should have made that much more clear!

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