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Physics & Skyscrapers
Posted: 11 February 2011 04:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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citizenschallenge.pm - 11 February 2011 03:26 PM

No, I’m saying the obvious intense combustion going on compromised the exposed steel, as mention above, the weight above those floors stressed the heat compromised structural trusses and connections beyond tolerances.  Once the first floor buckled there was no stopping immediate catastrophic collapse.

psikeyhackr - 11 February 2011 04:13 PM

So how do you know a floor buckled or that it could start the collapse?

They have films of it.  And above that buckling floor was X times X times way more weight than the connectors to the floor units were capable of supporting.

psikeyhackr - 11 February 2011 04:13 PM

The NIST says the core supported 53% of the weight of the building.

There was no monolithic core supporting weight.  It was columns connecting to floor units.

psikeyhackr - 11 February 2011 04:13 PM

We don’t have the weight of steel in the core at the levels where the planes hit so your comment about compromised trusses is just repetition of official story.  BELIEF THAT COLLAPSE WAS POSSIBLE.

Not sure what this means?  Everyone got to watch the tragedy play out.
From where do you gather “BELIEF THAT COLLAPSE WAS not POSSIBLE”?

psikeyhackr - 11 February 2011 04:13 PM

And that does not explain the destruction of more than 90 stories below where the plane hit the north tower.

What is it about momentum and pancaking and massive forces impacting structural units never designed to take those stresses that’s hard to believe?

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Posted: 11 February 2011 04:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Oh Grodd.  Not this again!

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“In the end nature is horrific and teaches us nothing.” -Mutual of Omicron

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Posted: 11 February 2011 05:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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citizenschallenge.pm - 11 February 2011 04:30 PM

They have films of it.  And above that buckling floor was X times X times way more weight than the connectors to the floor units were capable of supporting.

The FLOORS were outside of the CORE.

The columns of the CORE were connected by BEAMS not trusses.

But then is is next to Impossible to find any data about those BEAMS.  But all of the people that BELIEVE in the collapse manage not tho inquire about those BEAMS for nine years.

The blueprints show that FEMA’s report was inaccurate in stating that core columns were “freestanding” when in fact large horizontal beams cross-connected the core columns in a three-dimensional matrix of steel.

The NIST report into the collapses has also been proven inaccurate by the blueprints as it has implied that the only the corner columns were “massive” and that the core columns decreased in size in the higher stories when, in fact, the sixteen columns on the long faces of the cores shared the same dimensions for most of each Tower’s height.

http://www.infowars.com/articles/sept11/wtc_blueprints_leaked_by_whistleblower.htm

psik

[ Edited: 11 February 2011 05:11 PM by psikeyhackr ]
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Posted: 11 February 2011 06:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Hey, guys, just go back into the archives here a year or two ago to read all this stuff on both sides.  It’s easier than wasting your typing time re-entering it all again.  smile

Occam

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Posted: 11 February 2011 06:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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They could always just copy and paste.

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Posted: 11 February 2011 06:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Don’t suggest it to them.  We’ll be swamped with that argument again. vampire  LOL

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Posted: 11 February 2011 07:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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LOL It’s not how thick you make it ~ it’s how hard you can keep it tongue wink

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Posted: 11 February 2011 07:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Nice.  Everyone loves dong jokes.  Classic.

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Posted: 11 February 2011 07:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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hey I’m talking structural integrity.

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Posted: 11 February 2011 07:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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So was I. wink

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Posted: 11 February 2011 09:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Occam. - 11 February 2011 06:49 PM

Hey, guys, just go back into the archives here a year or two ago to read all this stuff on both sides.  It’s easier than wasting your typing time re-entering it all again.  smile

Occam

http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/3464/P315/

There was no collapse model with potential energy calculations.

Or a Ryan Mackey explaining modeling.

But none of our engineering schools have made a physical model that can collapse completely in NINE YEARS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT4BXIpdIdo


[278, 2/14]
psik

[ Edited: 14 February 2011 08:46 AM by psikeyhackr ]
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Posted: 11 September 2011 08:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Well, it’s that day.

9/11/11

TEN YEARS of Bad Physics!

The Physics Profession has not demanded accurate data on the distributions of steel and concrete down the towers.  Who cares about Potential Energy and the Conservation of Momentum?

I guess it is time to burn Isaac Newton in effigy.

[1272]
psik

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Posted: 16 September 2011 04:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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For all those claiming the debunking is easy, I refer you to the challenge here - http://www.csi911.info/

He asks for help doing the math, whether you support or reject the official narrative.

Facts in evidence seem to indicate that energy beyond that of gravity and freefall are needed to explain the lateral exceleration of exterior panels (let alone the total pulverization of material, this pulverized dust being hot enough to scorch vehicles, and the presence of molten metal).

from - http://www.csi911.info/CSI911.html

PURPOSE OF THIS PAGE:

To interest those who are “... not interested” in establishing a new, well funded, open, complete examination of the evidence surrounding the events of the Crime of 9/11.


To challenge people who may doubt the integrity of
the “9/11 Truth Movement”
To focus on a review of irrefutable evidence from the scene of
the Crime of 9/11
To stay clear of Politics and Premature Conspiracy Theories.
To offer only documented and proven information that will
generate a desire to examine all the evidence.

BECAUSE:
The Co-Chairs of The 9/11 Commission
Lee Hamilton and Thomas Kean admit
in their book WITHOUT PRECEDENT
Chapter One:
” We Were Set Up To Fail.”

Set up or not, the fact of their failure is obvious.
We are all victims of The Crime of 9/11. The Commission “Failed”.
We deserve a new and complete examination of the Crime of 9/11. 

MY QUESTION TO YOU:

What is Your source for the energy required
to produce these documented, physical, results?

PLEASE NOTE:
If you hold to the opinion that “... the airplane ... the jet fuel ... the tremendous heat ... the loss of strength ... the tube in a tube construction ... the pancake effect ... etc”., and you hold to this position because somebody told you so, and if you are not in a profession that provides you the tools to work out this physics problem, then it may be that all you offer is your (someone’s) opinion.


I do not wish to debate opinion.

“Debating opinion is ‘Chewing Gum’ for the mind.
Its taste may be irresistible. It keeps your jaw moving -
Yet it offers no real nutrition.”
Josef Princiotta

[snip]

I am taking a more scientific approach. I am not a scientist.
I am asking for any professional, Scientist, Architect or Engineer who :

A. Supports the “NIST - POPULAR MECHANICS CollapseTheory” for the North Tower.
OR
B. Does not support the “NIST - POPULAR MECHANICS Collalpse Theory” for the North Tower.


Please - Sir or Madam, Architect or Engineer
Please “Help us, do the math”.

Show, scientifically, your understanding of the energy necessary to generate the above documented events.

[end excerpt]

I do not see anything that would be at odds with those who want to know the truth. Considering how much disinformation has been generated, and the undeniable fact of destruction of crime scene evidence, those mocking such pleas seems unbearably smug.

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Posted: 22 September 2011 02:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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New Theory Explains Collapse of World Trade Center’s Twin Towers

According to a theory advanced by a SINTEF materials scientist, a mixture of water from sprinkler systems and molten aluminium from melted aircraft hulls created explosions that led to the collapse of the Twin Towers in Manhattan.

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Posted: 22 September 2011 06:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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I think what saddens me most from my long association wth atheism, skepticism, and CFI and the CSH, is the lack of outrage from them in addition to my own, over the fact that the “latest theory” cobbled together and put forth as an “explanation”, however good or deficient it may be, utterly FAILS to address the issue of insufficient attention and priority and funds and transparency over the investigation(s) that if done in a serious manner, coud have put to rest a lot of the controversy (not all to be certain) and created a much more stable foundation to build upon as far as actually learning from the collapse (instead of themselves merely theorizing what they think happened) and other “missteps”, and assuring all of us that it was carried out in a way that did not rule out facts based on the troubling conclusions that might arise. Skeptics should have been at the forefront of the stolen election and the ability to generate fraudulent black box voting tallies (are those conspiracy, anomolies, or non-existent?). They should have been pushing for thorough investigation of the physical evidence of 9/11 from everything from the wreckage to the audio and video tape records destroyed or held back. They should be fighting for *more* transparency. They should have attained the experience to know when something smells fishy, and that people are lying and that sometimes it means something that conflicting testimonies cannot both be true and that maybe we could resolve a few of them before going off half-cocked to murder a bunch more innocent people.

They’d be very exacting for creationists, or political theocrats, or psychics and astrologers…but have a corrupt regime imposed on the American people by a criminally-bent administration surrounded by plundering profiteers concocting any number of fanciful tales in plain view (proof of WMDs, missing emails, no one knows who leaked Plame, will fire who did, Katrina response competent, voter role scrubbing, Constitution justa goddam peice of paper, etc., etc., etc.)...and they seem to revert to a faith based system of our government as honest brokers of truth and lose all desire to actually discover and know.

Sure it’s easy to go after the run-of-the-mill nutters; who’s going to argue that the rationale for witch burnings or claims of levitation have not been established if true, and can be dismissed if not? But these other “mysteries” are most definitely in the realm of the physical world and can be investigated, not with some psychic vibrations meter, but by the old fashioned gathering of data, even when others put real world obstacles (not some goddam black magic curse - though they might as well have) in the way of getting to the truth.

Remember Iran-Contra? The powers that be lied their asses off about selling guns to one enemy for money to buy and sell drugs to have money and weapons to channel to a foreign army that Congress had outlawed supporting, so that the flow was done in secret using powerful intel assets with the knowledge of high level officials that could have gone all the way to the top, except for the fact that the president was provided plausible deniability and someone else fell on the sword.

Remember the denials?!?!? Conspiracy theories! Our govenment would never do that! It didn’t happen. Well, it did, but we didn’t know. Well some did, but they were rogues and loose cannons. Yes, they had friends in high places but that is just coincidence, and on and on and on.

Same crap, different chamber pot.

Previous PROVEN conspiraces are not proof of current ones, but provide far better grounds for rejection of claims that we don’t and wouldn’t do such things. There’s quite a trail of evidence already established, and considering the pronounced lack of true skepticism has a propagating effect, there’s really no telling what the upper limit on such blatant deceit might actually be.

So…NO I don’t know what all the facts truly are….but I sure as shit know that I woud have liked to and I used to feel that I had a partner in the skeptics movement to pull back the veil and shine a light on the darkness. I don’t anymore. I just see them going after the low hanging fruit like everyone else. This could have been our moment to shine. Science and detective work f#cking proved what was long denied, that black box voting machines could be rigged. That right there should have rung some serious alarm bells to those still able to use facts to make concrete connections. Instead, we skip merrily on our way with a new type of witch hunt (the search for their nonexistence). Our skeptical tool kit appears to be all show and no go.

“Move along, nothing to see here.”

Fine, then. Lead, follow,or get out of the way. Do the math, and if not, don’t cut the legs out from someone else demanding that you should be able to work out the energy equations for reducing tons of solid material to a very fine and superheated powder by the kinetic energy of a plane impact (planned for in the design), the heat energy of the kerosene fuel (planned for in the design), and the stored gravitational energy coupled with the sufficient weakening from damage, heat, and catostrophic failures, of structural components engineered with load carrying capacities greater than the loads carried and built in redundencies and reinforcements.

Show that the energy is there to have the entire structure fall like a puppet with its strings cut, and have a great portion of the mass drift away in the breeze as if a child had blown on a dandelion puff. That these known forces, energy sources, and physical structure properties can be flattened and pulverized with seemingly no more effort than ramming a softball bat down a can of Pringles potato chips.


Nothing to see here. Nothing to learn. Nothing to show. They would never lie to us.

Never, ever, ever, ever, ever.

I guess that settles it. I’ll shut up now.

[ Edited: 22 September 2011 06:28 PM by LanceThruster ]
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