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Physics & Skyscrapers
Posted: 22 February 2012 11:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 496 ]
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Yipes, didn’t realize I caused so much confusion.  gotta admit I kind of tune out this discuss, but it’s like everyday it’s back at the top of the list, and after a few days I break down and take a peek. 
Like there ought to be a whole ‘nother thread dedicated to explaining/discussing how this thing never dies.
Jeez talk ‘bout a dog chasing his tail argument. . .  tongue wink

LanceThruster - 21 February 2012 11:14 AM

THX W4U.

I was just pasting the relavent quote I was addressing so as to not waste bandwidth. When I quote in the traditional way, I get all the rest of the post and have to delete large blocks to retain what I want (often screwing up the formatting in the process).

Write4U - 20 February 2012 08:24 PM
LanceThruster - 20 February 2012 07:52 PM
citizenschallenge.pm - 17 February 2012 06:10 PM

Lance what the hell does your post have to do with W4U’s narrative of what a nation watched unfold in front of them?


Still curious if anyone can explain the thing about how many seconds it took total collapse to occur?

I’m even more lost than that. What the hell are you talking about?

CC, I believe his post was in response someone else’ post and not mine.

Lance, it would help if in the quote you could name of the originator. Especially when there are several participants. It’s hard to keep track of who said what.

Without going back the first part is that a nation saw jet planes crash into those towers.  And those loved ones on those planes never returned home that night or the next.

We saw the WTC structure handle the impact of 350 tons, opps, big shit, 350 thousand pounds at three-hundredish knots per hour worth of fully-fueled jetliner.

We saw that bitch burn, you look up the time, but it burned and burned, and shit warmed and warped.

There is big boy footage around that shows the exterior trussing buckle micro seconds before failure.  There was nothing magical about any of it.

That’s what I meant.
===================================================


As for the second part.  Well I keep hearing these snippets about fall-time this and fall-time that. . .
Can someone explain to me what the timing of actual collapse has to do with anything?

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Posted: 22 February 2012 12:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 497 ]
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Apparently, some 9/11 conspiracy theorists think that the towers fell faster than free-fall, indicating who knows what. Space lasers maybe

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“What people do is they confuse cynicism with skepticism. Cynicism is ‘you can’t change anything, everything sucks, there’s no point to anything.’ Skepticism is, ‘well, I’m not so sure.’” -Bill Nye

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Posted: 22 February 2012 12:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 498 ]
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domokato - 22 February 2012 12:13 PM

Apparently, some 9/11 conspiracy theorists think that the towers fell faster than free-fall, indicating who knows what. Space lasers maybe

Alrightie then, now we are getting somewhere!
I thought bending the laws of gravity… but space lasers… well, sure, ok, now it makes sense. . . 

cool hmm

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Posted: 22 February 2012 12:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 499 ]
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domokato sez—“It is simply more rational to believe the theory that matches the evidence the closest.”

Insurance fraud investigators routinely dig a little deeper to establish that nothing sinister or criminal took place. Do you think they care that *most* conspiracy theories are not true (even granting that whoever said that but provided *nothing* to establish that claim was correct)?

A vehicle driving off the side of a mountain road with no skidmarks could easily be chalked up to carelessness or excess speed. That might match the evidence the “closest”. But if upon a thorough examination of the wreckage, it could be determined a brake line was severed, that might indicate something other than what the cursory examination revealed. The coroner would most likely do an autopsy that established if drugs or alcohol were involved. Maybe the body has indication of a gunshot wound, or maybe there’s evidence the victim was in fact dead before the vehicle went over the side. Sure these scenarios are out of the ordinary, but that’s how genuine investigations work.

If someone stood to gain from the death of the driver; that in itself is not conclusive. If the beneficiary was innocent, they’d most likely not object to a full investigation. However, if they played some part in sabotaging the vehicle, their reluctance to co-operate with investigators might further suspicions.

If one tried to prosecute without having done a proper investigation, it would rightly get laughed out to court whether the accused was guilty or innocent.

The time to investigate is from the start, letting the facts take you where they may. Certain anomalies might cause you to pursue leads you might otherwise dismiss. Even if you have a hypothesis already, you do not work backwards from a conclusion.

If you do…if you destroy evidence, block or obstruct a credible investigation according to proper and established protocol for incidences involving aircraft, unnatural deaths in the manner that they occured, and complete catastrophic collapse of a metropolitan landmark in the clear commission of a crime, allow for zero transparency, examine with a particular bias from the start…you should be condemned - loudly and without reservation.

I *fully* agree with those condemning the slipshod “investigation” as a sham and a cover up.

 

You keep saying to point to *exactly* what was covered up!

 

That’s the whole godd@mned point of a cover up, isn’t it!

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Posted: 22 February 2012 01:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 500 ]
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There is big boy footage…

...of people (and the crawl on the screen below) reporting that WTC 7 had collapsed when it clearly was still standing behind them.

Move along. Nothing to see here.

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Posted: 22 February 2012 01:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 501 ]
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LanceThruster - 22 February 2012 01:03 PM

There is big boy footage…

...of people (and the crawl on the screen below) reporting that WTC 7 had collapsed when it clearly was still standing behind them.

Move along. Nothing to see here.

Oh lordie the teleprompter crawl indicator thingy was clearly out of wack, ado wack ado wack ado.

No the big boy footage was high definition, very slow motion, with computer generated straight lines, super-imposed upon the footage of the tower.  Sort of the thing a professional engineering firm or some such could/would produce.

Again, nothing mysterious or magical, as for TV, boobtube feeds and such, who knows what all panic and chaos was going in the producers studios.  Come on ya gotta come up with better than that   vampire

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Posted: 22 February 2012 01:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 502 ]
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who knows what all panic and chaos was going in the producers studios.

Yeah…“big boy” journos…

The dancing Israelis were much calmer for some reason. Hmmm…I wonder why?

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Posted: 22 February 2012 01:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 503 ]
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LanceThruster - 22 February 2012 12:53 PM

The time to investigate is from the start, letting the facts take you where they may. Certain anomalies might cause you to pursue leads you might otherwise dismiss. Even if you have a hypothesis already, you do not work backwards from a conclusion.

extra ordinary claims require extra-ordinary evidence . . . . . . .

LanceThruster - 22 February 2012 12:53 PM

You keep saying to point to *exactly* what was covered up!

That’s the whole godd@mned point of a cover up, isn’t it!

You made me think of a good ol movie Doctor Strangelove LOL

Here’s a favorite clip. 
The punchline don’t happen until 4:15 minutes into this four and a half minute video, but hey

Doctor Strangelove - Doomsday Machine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yfXgu37iyI

well, ok, sorry, guess i drifted there.
Guess this conversation is bringing out the silly in me.
Though there’s nothing silly about the actual “enemy” here, that being our Willful Ignorance,
and how easily distracted we get.

And regarding those long winded posts they require tunnel vision to follow and unreasonable rationalizing to believe.
Sorry I demand as much information and knowledge as possible ~ and nothing in the above pages has come close to offering anything noteworthy, nor acknowledging known facts.
I am open to new discoveries, even if they upend old understanding ~
but, you need to come up with something substantial, and you haven’t.

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Posted: 22 February 2012 01:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 504 ]
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Like there ought to be a whole ‘nother thread dedicated to explaining/discussing how this thing never dies.

Well, um like…feel free to start one and leave this discussion to those willing to challenge each other’s presumptions with something other than hand waving.

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Posted: 22 February 2012 02:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 505 ]
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LanceThruster - 22 February 2012 01:53 PM

Like there ought to be a whole ‘nother thread dedicated to explaining/discussing how this thing never dies.

Well, um like…feel free to start one and leave this discussion to those willing to challenge each other’s presumptions with something other than hand waving.

Without going back ... thing is a nation saw jet planes crash into those towers. 
And those loved ones on those planes never returned home that night or the next.

We saw the WTC structure handle the impact of 350 tons, opps, big shit, 350 thousand pounds at
three-hundredish knots per hour worth of fully-fueled jetliner.  Think momentum and all that.

We saw that bitch burn, you look up the time, but it burned and burned, and shit warmed and warped.

There is big boy footage around that shows the exterior trussing buckle micro seconds before failure.  There was nothing magical about any of it.

You call that hand waving ?   grrr

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Posted: 22 February 2012 04:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 506 ]
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extra ordinary claims require extra-ordinary evidence . . . . . . .

Yes, the claims of just how many coincidences needed to come together just right, how many bad breaks and bungles, how many warnings ignored, how many irregularities across the board, for a rag-tag group of cave-dwellers to defeat the most expensive, sophisticated defense network on the face of the earth, not just once, but multiple times after the threat became unmistakably apparent, with only box cutters, a little moxie, and some incredible crash course (no pun intended) flying skills, while the Secret Service allowed a president potentially in harm’s way at a known location in close proximity to a local airfield knowing that the attack danger came specifically from aircraft on suicide missions let him sit calmly reading to tots who might also have been part of the victims list you seem to cry so many crocodile tears over…these *are* rather extra-ordinary claims.

I know that victims’ families would like to get to the bottom of the story and have their day in court…but have been denied such and are under a gag order.

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/9-11_lawsuits_suppressed.html

Why do *you* think you have more standing than the family members of victims?

How would *you* feel if you were treated so poorly after such a traumatic event?

I’ll bet *you* might hope for someone to stand with you and also demand justice and accountability.

Or would *you* just be satisfied with the old “everyone knows what happened…” boilerplate?

You know when churchies challenge unbelievers over Christ’s supposed resurrection with “Liar, Lunatic, or Lord?”, the correct answer is that those are _not_ the only choices.

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Posted: 22 February 2012 04:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 507 ]
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LanceThruster - 22 February 2012 04:02 PM

extra ordinary claims require extra-ordinary evidence . . . . . . .

Yes, the claims of just how many coincidences needed to come together just right, how many bad breaks and bungles, how many warnings ignored, how many irregularities across the board, for a rag-tag group of cave-dwellers to defeat the most expensive, sophisticated defense network on the face of the earth, not just once, but multiple times after the threat became unmistakably apparent, with only box cutters, a little moxie, and some incredible crash course (no pun intended) flying skills, while the Secret Service allowed a president potentially in harm’s way at a known location in close proximity to a local airfield knowing that the attack danger came specifically from aircraft on suicide missions let him sit calmly reading to tots who might also have been part of the victims list you seem to cry so many crocodile tears over…these *are* rather extra-ordinary claims.

Don’t know how to answer that one for you.  Our Protectors always seemed like a bunch of self-centered cocky somewhat oblivious kids anyways.  I’m shocked but not surprised.

But none of that takes away from the fact that those hundreds of coincidences, and incredible chutzpah, did come together.  Jet planes eviscerated and then incinerated a few floors worth of the WTC.

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Posted: 22 February 2012 04:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 508 ]
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You call that hand waving ?

Why, no. You’re so right. We saw that bitch burn. Crackle, crackle, crackle. No reason whatsoever to do intensive forensic examination of an occurrence so rare that it only happened like this in the past…um *never* times before.

I mean, what could you possibly learn by having qualified engineering professionals examine to debris with full transparency and peer review when you can just do computer models based on supposition and willfully omitting key elements of the construction (at least those elements for which *details* were actually provided).

This debris was so unimportant that every goddamned ounce of it was tracked with expensive and sophisticated GPS locators (causing one trucker to lose his job because of an unscheduled lunch stop), and almost immediately shipped overseas to be melted down without anything more than a cursory examination. For the 10th anniv of 9/11 some entrepreneurial vulture is selling commemorative coins of the event with the newly struck Seal Team Six addition, yet it’s possible we might have reduced the national debt by selling bits of the scrap in museums and such the same way my friend bought me a chunk of the Berlin Wall from/near Checkpoint Charlie. The scrap could have been divvied up and sent off to engineering schools across the nation to inspire our youth towards science in the same way it did in its day with the space program. Why such details provided openly to all could have shut up rapscallions like psikeyhackr once and for all instead of the lot of you moaning, “Oh why, oh why, do we have to put up with the endless torment of psikeyhackr when we could show him just how wrong his understand of basic physics is…not with a computer model alone, but actual pieces of the structure that demonstrate conclusively how load bearing elements failed totally under normal and understandable forces by being pressed far beyond their limits.”

Boy howdy, I bet you are all *really* sorry now that such a piss-poor investigation took place because look how hard *you* have to work to try to dismiss whatever sophistry us R-tards bring up! You’d think that would be reason enough to do things right all along (forgetting all those other excuses about incompetence, @ss covering, confusion, 20-20 hindsight, etc.).

It would have been worth it just to shut *us* up, no?

It’s a damn shame, innit?

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Posted: 22 February 2012 04:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 509 ]
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But none of that takes away from the fact that those hundreds of coincidences, and incredible chutzpah, did come together.

What a truly *incredible* conspiracy theory!!

The chutzpah (shown to be justified to date) was by the actual perps (whoever they may be) in dismissing with hand waving all the details that lead one away from the official narrative to a point where one is forced to ask more questions because the answers given are so transparently unsatisfying.

If there was no underlying truth, you’d have no reason to object to a proper investigation as it would only confirm what you claim to already know. Yet you belittle those who feel it is clear that further and proper investigation would show/would have shown the official narrative as unsupportable.

Cui bono?

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Posted: 22 February 2012 04:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 510 ]
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Sorry I demand as much information and knowledge as possible

Hmmm. Must be definitions of information and knowledge I was previously unaware of.

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