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Physics & Skyscrapers
Posted: 26 March 2012 03:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 631 ]
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psikeyhackr - 26 March 2012 02:35 PM
domokato - 26 March 2012 10:37 AM

You didn’t answer the question

The Python program already covered that.  It is not my fault that you cannot figure out the obvious effect of physical supports.

Obviously, they double the collapse time? No need to calculate that part.

I did that with the physical model.

Still a very bad model with an non-collapsible core. Nor any fires.

All you can do is regard that as unacceptable

What more do I need to do?

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Posted: 26 March 2012 07:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 632 ]
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domokato - 26 March 2012 03:45 PM

What more do I need to do?

Grow a brain.

I only doubled the number to show the given collapse time was too short.  The 12 seconds was with constant masses.  With correct data it would most likely be closer to 14 seconds.  But that can’t be computed if we don’t have correct data.  But people who believe in the collapse object to anyone asking about correct data.

Supports would have to get stronger toward the bottom just like in my model so crushing them would require more energy.  The dowel in my model does not participate in the collapse and since it is parallel to the force of gravity it does not resist gravity.  That is just a talking point for you to advertise your illogical argument.

I already described a thought experiment with a 5 level gap which is more damage than plane and fire could do so your bringing up the fire is just more nonsense.  How could 15 stories accelerate through 90 stories and and be explained without the steel and concrete distributions?  Truly hilarious.

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Posted: 27 March 2012 05:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 633 ]
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psikeyhackr - 26 March 2012 07:20 PM
domokato - 26 March 2012 03:45 PM

What more do I need to do?

Grow a brain.

psik

That’s the eventuality of any sincere conversation with psik.

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Posted: 27 March 2012 09:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 634 ]
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traveler - 27 March 2012 05:27 AM
psikeyhackr - 26 March 2012 07:20 PM
domokato - 26 March 2012 03:45 PM

What more do I need to do?

Grow a brain.

psik

That’s the eventuality of any sincere conversation with psik.

Oh really?  LOL

But none of you have written programs to test collapse times.  In fact has anyone even run my program?  Has anyone asked a question about the code?  Has anyone looked at the code?  No one has tried explaining anything wrong with it.

Has anyone built a physical model that can completely collapse?

These threads always go into these long hesitations because you people cannot come up with a meaningful case.  You can just talk a lot of nonsense that helps you BELIEVE what you prefer but you cannot justify it.  But everyone is supposed to BELIEVE in a top down gravitational collapse of a 400,000+ building without accurate data on the building.  Even if I thought it was possible I would expect official sources in the government to supply that data in human readable form and easily readable computer form.  Like they never heard of comma delimited files.

psik

[ Edited: 27 March 2012 10:55 AM by psikeyhackr ]
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Posted: 27 March 2012 12:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 635 ]
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We need the Holy Script of the Building Data.  Jeez!  This is beginning to sound like a religious argument.

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Posted: 27 March 2012 03:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 636 ]
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I looked at your code. I didn’t have time to really analyze it. I never said it was wrong. I accepted the calculated time at face value. The point was that the calculated time was too short to prove anything.

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Posted: 27 March 2012 03:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 637 ]
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Does this say anything?

Better pic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_Trade_Center_Building_Design_with_Floor_and_Elevator_Arrangment.svg

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Posted: 27 March 2012 05:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 638 ]
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domokato - 27 March 2012 03:13 PM

I looked at your code. I didn’t have time to really analyze it. I never said it was wrong. I accepted the calculated time at face value. The point was that the calculated time was too short to prove anything.

The time it took the building to come down was TOO SHORT.

The point of the program is that just changing the distribution of mass changes the minimum possible collapse time even under magical conditions.  So what sense doe it make to not have accurate distribution of steel and concrete information to analyse what happened under non-magical conditions?

The change from 12 to 14 seconds is more than 16%  That does not count the increase in energy requirements to crush lower levels because the steel had to get thicker.

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Posted: 27 March 2012 05:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 639 ]
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Write4U - 27 March 2012 03:25 PM

Does this say anything?

Better pic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_Trade_Center_Building_Design_with_Floor_and_Elevator_Arrangment.svg

It may be better for you.  I downloaded the entire NCSTAR1 report and burned it to DVD 4 years ago.  I have said that numerous times.  Unfortunately this site does not lists individual posts when you do a search so I can’t show all of the times I have told you.  It seems you all just prefer to think I don’t know what I am talking about.

I have diagrams that show the locations of all of the toilets and sinks and urinals in the core.  But that does not provide data on how the thickness of the horizontal beams in the core changed down the building.  That would change the tons of steel on each level.

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Posted: 27 March 2012 05:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 640 ]
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psikeyhackr - 27 March 2012 05:01 PM
domokato - 27 March 2012 03:13 PM

I looked at your code. I didn’t have time to really analyze it. I never said it was wrong. I accepted the calculated time at face value. The point was that the calculated time was too short to prove anything.

The time it took the building to come down was TOO SHORT.

Yes, and to prove that, you would need a calculated time that came out to something GREATER than the actual time.

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Posted: 27 March 2012 06:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 641 ]
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psikeyhackr - 27 March 2012 05:08 PM
Write4U - 27 March 2012 03:25 PM

Does this say anything?

Better pic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_Trade_Center_Building_Design_with_Floor_and_Elevator_Arrangment.svg

It may be better for you.  I downloaded the entire NCSTAR1 report and burned it to DVD 4 years ago.  I have said that numerous times.  Unfortunately this site does not lists individual posts when you do a search so I can’t show all of the times I have told you.  It seems you all just prefer to think I don’t know what I am talking about.

I have diagrams that show the locations of all of the toilets and sinks and urinals in the core.  But that does not provide data on how the thickness of the horizontal beams in the core changed down the building.  That would change the tons of steel on each level.

psik

Did you add the weight of all the tiolets and urinals? And desks, filecabinets, safes, computers, printers, furniture, etc, etc?  How much more hundreds of tons of weight existed within the building that wasn’t there when it was built?

IMO, there are just too many unknown variables. The main point is that it happened and there was an identified cause which set the events in motion. You cannot seperate these events and look for the possibility that under normal circumstance individual events could not have happened.

Look at it from a “motive and opportunity” angle. Publicity wise what difference would it have made if only the top 15 floors had come down. Bin Laden wanted to make a point and by his own words the result exceeded his expectations. Even if during the years of planning he had opportunity to place additional explosives, what difference does it make now? He is dead and we have exacted our pound of flesh a ten times over.

Its time to let go and move on.

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Posted: 27 March 2012 06:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 642 ]
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Write4U - 27 March 2012 06:00 PM

Did you add the weight of all the tiolets and urinals? And desks, filecabinets, safes, computers, printers, furniture, etc, etc?  How much more hundreds of tons of weight existed within the building that wasn’t there when it was built?

IMO, there are just too many unknown variables. The main point is that it happened and there was an identified cause which set the events in motion. You cannot seperate these events and look for the possibility that under normal circumstance individual events could not have happened.

I have seen this EXCUSE for throwing out information before and before and before.  But the STEEL had to be designed to support the weight of all of the things you are listing plus the concrete.  That is encompassed when I say “skyscrapers have to hold themselves up”.  Just because I use the term “tons of steel” does not mean I am forgetting the strength of the steel.  The reason the amount of steel had to increase down the building was to INCREASE THE STRENGTH to support greater weight.  That is why I emphasise DISTRIBUTION.

If anything those plumbing fixtures do raise more questions:

Based on building size and occupancy, the requisite number of porcelain plumbing fixtures for rest rooms would have exceeded 50,000. With one exception, a fragment of an individual filing cabinet, debris from the towers contained virtually no individual pieces of any furniture, draperies, carpeting, computer equipment or plumbing fixtures from non-burning floors. Debris which did contain barely recognizable furniture and fixture components were literally fused together with steel rebars.

http://www.the-office.com/disclosureproject-1.htm

[4/13/12=12822]
[6/25/12=13554]
[8/24/12=13998]
[9/22/12=14206]
psik

[ Edited: 20 September 2012 09:08 PM by psikeyhackr ]
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Posted: 01 January 2014 12:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 643 ]
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Can physics give a damn about psychology?

Switching the problem from physics to psychology seems to help some people convince themselves they are intelligent.  Of course our psychologists say that 75% of the population scores below 111 on their IQ tests.  That must mean it is the NORMAL people who have made the scientific advances of the last 100 years.

But after 12 years why aren’t the professional psychologists demanding experiments from the physicists to resolve the 9/11 issues?  Haven’t they heard of Pavlov’s Dog?  LOL

Engineers could model big structural engineering decades ago.  At 2:45!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB008RAluyg

Engineers could make that model within months, almost 30 years before the Moon landing but 30 years after the landing they can’t get a north tower model done in TWELVE YEARS.

Happy New Year, the full 9/11 dodecade is completed.  Twelve full years of the physics profession not solving grade school physics problems.  We still don’t have a table from AUTHORITY with trustworthy steel and concrete distributions down the towers.  Where has AE911Truth discussed the point of having that information?

Oh yeah, I am delusional.  It must not be important.  Potential Energy and the Conservation of Momentum are Delusional.

Happy New Year !!!

[18305]
psik

[ Edited: 01 January 2014 03:02 PM by psikeyhackr ]
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Posted: 01 January 2014 04:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 644 ]
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You are introducing psychology into the conversation.  Aside from the physics what mental process would add to the collapse of the towers? Wishful thinking? The only answer you have is premeditation by unknown parties.

Psikey, a space shuttle blew up because an O-ring became too brittle from the cold. Was this also a conspiracy, or just a convergence of the right conditions, each adding just a little until a treshold was passed and a domino effect took place.  Shit happens and we make design and construction mistakes all the time. It is just newsworthy when it happens to big shit.

But, like Pavlov’s dog, your emotions seem to be conditioned to respond to the very mention of WTC. Even if you are right, history is filled with intrigue, sabotage, and conspiracies, which will never be solved. At some point we have to move on.
A few more decades and no one who was alive to witness that horrible disaster will be around to talk about it. It’ll be just another news reel, like the destruction of the Tacoma bridge, which worked just fine until there was a “set of conditions” which tore the thing apart.  Was that a human conspiracy or did a set of natural events and design flaws conspire to bring that bridge down?

In any case, I hope that all CFI members will enjoy a peaceful and prosperous 2014.

[ Edited: 01 January 2014 09:04 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 02 January 2014 09:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 645 ]
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The 9/11 bullsh!t has completed 12 full years, 2002 through 2013.

Children who just started 1st grade in 2001 are now in college.  American robots are on Mars and a Chinese robot is on the Moon and measly problems involving skyscrapers are not resolved.  It is almost funny.

A lot of the conspiracy websites have people slinging psychological rocks at each other more than discussing physics.

But since the importance of the steel and concrete distributions down the buildings should have been obvious to the simple minded 12 years ago I suppose this should not be surprising.  The opposition had to be rejecting grade school physics for a long time.  What can be more psychological than that?

So some people would have to admit to themselves that they have been stupid for a long time but then the psychological crap comes into play.

That is why I am glad I found that Tacoma Bridge video.  A physical model is incapable of giving a damn about anybody’s psychology.  How is it that a good physical model could be built and tested and filmed within a matter of months in 1940 but we can’t get it done in 12 years 73 years later?

There is definitely some mass psychology involved.  Of course there was no television in 1940.  Everyone knew the wind had something to do with it and there were no perps to blame.  The US was not an international power dependent on foreign oil.  The country was still climbing out of the Depression.  Yeah, it was a different world.

But physics does not change or care.

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