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Atheistic Dilemma - How do you deal with your mortality?
Posted: 02 September 2011 09:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 121 ]
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TheodorePliske - 02 September 2011 01:50 PM

I remember a long while back I was discussing with someone who believes in god. I gave a rather obtuse question that he was not prepared: What is a god of the universe exists, what does that mean? He will be the god of billions of galaxies, trillions of planets and possibly the god of hundreds if not thousands of possible varying intelligent life forms that most probably exist in the whole universe. If god exists, surely than your fate is so miniscule and insignificant that whether you exist or not is none of his concern. What if there is a god and he does not care a single bit about you? What if he never prepared an afterlife for you but is ready and willing to abandon your existence in the face of the grand scheme of things. Would you still love such a god and worship him?

Sure enough, such an apathetic personal god did not much please most. God without afterlife seems to be no god at all…

If you are talking to a deist, then that’s a good question. If you are talking to a theist who is dedicated to a particular religion, then I can’t see how helpful this would be for most believers, because you’re talking to someone who already has an established view about god. Asking them questions like “what if your god was _____?” will usually get responses like “well, he’s not like that, so…..?”

Think about it. If you ask a committed Christian, “Would you still love your god if he hated you and was going to send you to hell, regardless of what you do for him?” he/she will simply say, “Of course I wouldn’t love him, but the god I serve does love me, and will save me from hell.” Now the ball is back in your court.

If you had confronted me in my Christian days with your question about the universe, I’d simply say that “Jesus died for me, so I know I"m not worthless or “miniscule” to him.” While there are some that aren’t prepared for your question, there are millions that are.

[ Edited: 02 September 2011 09:24 PM by Cloak ]
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Don’t get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water. Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put water into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.

- Bruce Lee -

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Posted: 02 September 2011 11:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 122 ]
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God without afterlife seems to be no god at all…

Why should one be connected with the other?

We assocciate God or gods with an afterlife because it’s a part of our cultural constructs which surround religion, but this sentiment isn’t shared by every religion which exists or ever did.

Would it surprise you to find out that one of the religions which did not have a belief in an afterlife as an agreed to part of it’s creed was Judiasm? Would it surprise you also to find out that some religions, Buddahism for example, does have a belief in an afterlife but is also completely atheistic?

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Posted: 03 September 2011 09:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 123 ]
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Being a believer in evolution completely cancels out any part of the afterlife.  We will live forever if we leave many accomplishments behind.  I will always be known as a promoter of good music for the children.  My costumes that I made for a Shakespearean theater are still being worn.  My children are all professionals in their chosen fields and that was a collaboration of directing them to the best of my ability.  I am getting closer to 80 every year I can still stand up and I must confess I’m tired and look forward to resting my body and brain.

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Posted: 03 September 2011 10:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 124 ]
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Traveler.  I actually knew that we are from star dust.  I have read Sagan and watch the Science Channel often. I figured that after the world came to an end and the dinosaurs were done for; much that was left ended up in the soil.  I work the soil a lot in my garden and love the texture and smell of good clean dirt.

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Posted: 03 September 2011 10:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 125 ]
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“If you are talking to a deist, then that’s a good question. “

Admittedly, my friend is a sort of deist.

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“Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that’s even remotely true.” - Homer Simpsons

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Posted: 03 September 2011 11:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 126 ]
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TheodorePliske - 03 September 2011 10:26 AM

“If you are talking to a deist, then that’s a good question. “

Admittedly, my friend is a sort of deist.

Well, most deists are absolutely harmless, so there’s no need to worry about them, in my opinion.

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Don’t get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water. Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put water into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.

- Bruce Lee -

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Posted: 03 September 2011 02:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 127 ]
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Sandy Price - 03 September 2011 10:21 AM

Traveler.  I actually knew that we are from star dust.  I have read Sagan and watch the Science Channel often. I figured that after the world came to an end and the dinosaurs were done for; much that was left ended up in the soil.  I work the soil a lot in my garden and love the texture and smell of good clean dirt.

Oh, I had no doubt that you knew that. I was just keeping it real.  smile

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Posted: 03 September 2011 05:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 128 ]
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Sandy Price - 03 September 2011 09:33 AM

I am getting closer to 80 every year I can still stand up and I must confess I’m tired and look forward to resting my body and brain.

I hope I feel the same way when I get older. I find that when I get really tired (has to be physically tired) I actually look forward to sleeping. Doesn’t happen often, but when it does it’s a treat.

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Posted: 04 September 2011 05:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 129 ]
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George, I just wish that my brain would get as tired as my body.  I wake up most nights with my brain trying to debate with others, that the most obvious problems we have in America could be solved once the terrorism of Christianity is gone.  I refused to let my children be afraid of any action in the future.  They were trained to love and respect all living things.  That, to me, is what Secular Humanism is all about. 

I live in an area where I have access to several swimming pools and I try for a daily workout just to keep the body active.  I am tired! 

Many times a week, I get fed-up with the commercials on the television, and I head for CSPAN.  I am always stunned at the ignorance of the callers.  Before 2000 when the religious right started changing the scope of our government, I heard the call in voices of some very intelligent people with intelligent questions.  Where did they go? 

President Bush 43 lowered the standards for communicating with the people.  When he found himself floundering on any subject he change the focus to God.  That seemed to attract many new voters for the GOP who had no vocabulary and no sense of sentence structure.

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Posted: 04 September 2011 12:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 130 ]
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I am new to this site and it will be hard for me to converse on a regular basis, however, has Pascals Wager been metioned in this thread?..........

Pascal wrote:

“If there is a God, He is infinitely incomprehensible, since, having, neither parts nor limits, He has no affinity to us. We are then incapable of knowing either what He is or if He is ... you must wager. It is not optional. You are embarked. Which will you choose then? Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager then, without hesitation, that he is.”


..................How does this, if at all, affect this discussion?.............PD

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“Take courage mortal, death cannot banish you from the universe.”
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Posted: 04 September 2011 01:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 131 ]
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philo deist - 04 September 2011 12:48 PM

How does this, if at all, affect this discussion?.............PD

Not much. Pascal’s wager is a classically bad argument. It assumes what needs to be proved: namely that God is as Pascal assumes him to be. What if God is Allah and you’re believing in the Christian God? What if God is a fickle God who dislikes it when people toady up to him? Etc.

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Posted: 04 September 2011 02:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 132 ]
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dougsmith - 04 September 2011 01:37 PM
philo deist - 04 September 2011 12:48 PM

How does this, if at all, affect this discussion?.............PD

Not much. Pascal’s wager is a classically bad argument. It assumes what needs to be proved: namely that God is as Pascal assumes him to be. What if God is Allah and you’re believing in the Christian God? What if God is a fickle God who dislikes it when people toady up to him? Etc.

And as Dawkins said, what if there is no god and you wasted all that precious time worshiping him? Better things to do for the world.

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Posted: 04 September 2011 06:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 133 ]
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As I responded to one of those silly arguments, “If there is a god, I define him/her/it as respecting those who think for themselves and avoid believing things without proof.  As such, I’ll be accepted into heaven, and all of you mythology believers will go to hell in spite of having spent your whole lives sucking up to him/her/it.”

Occam

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Posted: 05 September 2011 07:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 134 ]
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Wonderful response, Occam…....

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Posted: 05 September 2011 07:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 135 ]
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No one knows what does or doesn’t happen after you die - same way no one knows whether there is a God(s) or not.

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