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Caverns on Moon
Posted: 27 November 2017 08:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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TromboneAndrew - 27 November 2017 06:27 PM
Citizenschallenge-v.3 - 27 November 2017 06:09 PM

Although Andrew, I find it bizarre beyond comprehension(I do but I don’t need to be so pissy about it, sorry) how glibly people draw parallels between space travel and Earthly voyages of discovery across our planet’s oceans.
They really aren’t equivocal my any stretch of the imagination technically or from a lebensraum perspective.

As for the gravity issue, at 1/6th of Earth’s gravity, that may create as many mining processing problems as advantages, since most hard rock milling and extraction is a gravity feed operation.  Oh and it uses lots and lots of water.

Did I make that comparison somewhere here? Well, I have in the past, but I think the comparison needs to go back a few more centuries than German expansionism. (Yes, I had to look up Lebensraum!) Right now we seem to be in the rough equivalent in space travel to the space between the Vikings doing their voyages to Iceland and beyond and Christopher Columbus’s famous voyage. Sure, the scope is different but there aren’t really any other close-ish parallels that I know of to the challenges of space travel.

As for asteroid/moon mining, the biggest problem as far as I know, given lack of atmosphere, is heat distribution - the lack thereof.

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TromboneAndrew - 04 November 2017 10:59 AM

Besides, I’m sure there are critics in every economy: why would Rome bother with the expense of importing Egyptian grains when they can grow their own crops? The “let’s take care of our own first” view is just not productive, historically or now. Countries that “take care of their own first” get overrun by those who explore.

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Using ‘lebensraum’ was a lousy word to begin even before it sent you off on a wild goose chase.
Survivability Environment or some such would have been closer to what I mean.

Go back to the polynesians if you like, get as primate as you want.  It’s still nothing like space travel in the slightest. 
The technology to sailing is relatively simple and straightforward.
Keep from going under or starving and you’ll reach land, and more times than not that land had resource for the plucking with a blade and hands (~).
Many different ways to build a boat, and various flaws can be fixed on the fly.
Spaceships, complex computer systems, a survivability zone of inches.
No matter how many Hollywood movies show beat up spaceships limping back into port - in a real vacuum a beat up spaceship is dead real fast.
Think Apollo 13, sure they survived, but just barely and with a lot of luck. 
Had they lost contact with ground control there’d have been no miracle fixes for the CO2.
Had they not been within days of returning to the safety of Earth, they’d been lost.
Being lost a sea in a dingy sucks, but it still ain’t nothing like being stranded in freezing, empty space.


It’s one of the societal things that truly terrifies me, how many people have grown up watching StarTrek and StarWars and think it’s nearly as easy as Hollywood makes it look.

Heat dispersion, yeah so another technical challenge.  Yeah, yeah, technical challenges are made to be solved.  But as life shows us, it’s often not that simple.

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Posted: 27 November 2017 08:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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lebensraum

I was using it literally, sorry, I’m fluent in German. Living room - as in survivable environment.

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Posted: 28 November 2017 05:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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Citizenschallenge-v.3 - 27 November 2017 06:09 PM
InBetween - 27 November 2017 04:07 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u0rQ7J3oS4

That was really weird.

What are you doing?
.....

take it eeeasy, you’re gonna give yourself a nose bleed if you keep on convulsing the way you apparently are. Go back and read from the beginning. and then you will comprehend. If you are not willing to do the reading. I am afraid you will be convulsing for a while….People disagree and move on. Apparently you cannot move on. And that is not my problem.

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Posted: 28 November 2017 07:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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InBetween - 28 November 2017 05:18 PM

... Go back and read from the beginning. and then you will comprehend. If you are not willing to do the reading. I am afraid you will be convulsing for a while….People disagree and move on. Apparently you cannot move on. And that is not my problem.

Okay I went back and read it, it invites another convulse of incredulity, but I’ll hold back, or not.

Your comments imply an easy acceptance of lies, delusions and delusional thinking.

So, tough, take the flack.

Come up with some serious comments and follow up with some serious honest debate. 

I’ve been told I take things too seriously.  Well life is worth taking seriously - unfortunately Hollyworld Alt-reality seems to be the fashion of our time.

You blame NASA for something that was clearly out of NASA’s hands - that’s WRONG plan and simple, call my objection what ever dismissive nonsense you like, it’s still wrong.  :long:

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Posted: 29 November 2017 09:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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Citizenschallenge-v.3 - 28 November 2017 07:13 PM

  Okay I went back and read it, it invites another convulse of incredulity, but I’ll hold back, or not.

Your comments imply an easy acceptance of lies, delusions and delusional thinking.

So, tough, take the flack.

Come up with some serious comments and follow up with some serious honest debate. 

I’ve been told I take things too seriously.  Well life is worth taking seriously - unfortunately Hollyworld Alt-reality seems to be the fashion of our time.

You blame NASA for something that was clearly out of NASA’s hands - that’s WRONG plan and simple, call my objection what ever dismissive nonsense you like, it’s still wrong.  :long:


As far as “serious” you accused me of lying about the 350 million $ Screw UP as you apparently don’t even know how to google, and here you are bitching and moaning about a conversation I am having with Andrew AS A compensation of you not having anything Valid to say.
NASA is STILL not important when people out there are starving. IT IS NOT. Get that through your thick skull. Especially when million and millions of dollars are being THROWN IN THE GARBAGE so some Mongolian moron out there could have his or her pet project sponsored. This country has more important priorities.


take your meds as you apparently have not since you don’t seem to be able to handle people disagreeing with you. Bye Bye now. ... You’re ignored sweety pie.

[ Edited: 29 November 2017 09:20 AM by InBetween ]
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Posted: 29 November 2017 10:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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InBetween - 29 November 2017 09:09 AM
Citizenschallenge-v.3 - 28 November 2017 07:13 PM

  Okay I went back and read it, it invites another convulse of incredulity, but I’ll hold back, or not.

Your comments imply an easy acceptance of lies, delusions and delusional thinking.

So, tough, take the flack.

Come up with some serious comments and follow up with some serious honest debate. 

I’ve been told I take things too seriously.  Well life is worth taking seriously - unfortunately Hollyworld Alt-reality seems to be the fashion of our time.

You blame NASA for something that was clearly out of NASA’s hands - that’s WRONG plan and simple, call my objection what ever dismissive nonsense you like, it’s still wrong.  :long:


As far as “serious” you accused me of lying about the 350 million $ Screw UP as you apparently don’t even know how to google, and here you are bitching and moaning about a conversation I am having with Andrew AS A compensation of you not having anything Valid to say.
NASA is STILL not important when people out there are starving. IT IS NOT. Get that through your thick skull. Especially when million and millions of dollars are being THROWN IN THE GARBAGE so some Mongolian moron out there could have his or her pet project sponsored. This country has more important priorities.


take your meds {whoa their buddy.  Do you hear yourself?  And you tell me to relax.} as you apparently have not since you don’t seem to be able to handle people disagreeing with you. Bye Bye now. ... You’re ignored sweety pie.

I sense a lot of rage.

As for valid thing to say?  How about:

Lying and slander should not be accepted as though it were okay free speech.

Honesty and clarity in dealing with each other are crucial for a functional society.

Believing that your own profits are all that should matter to oneself is insane and a road to self-destruction.

He who dies with the most toys only helps to make other’s lives living hells.

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Posted: 29 November 2017 10:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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Let me try to get this thread back on track.  Here is the crux.

psikeyhackr - 01 November 2017 05:44 PM
InBetween - 01 November 2017 03:46 PM

I Not long ago, it was exposed that they (NASA) proceeded to build this tower, half way through, they found out it was not going to work but they kept on finishing it anyway. Guess what the price tag was?!?!? 350 million dollars!!!! Google it. And there are other instances where they carelessly blow money to the left and to the right while veterans are living under the bridges.

Found it!

We seem to have a problem here regarding why this happened.

The rocket program it was designed for had been canceled in 2010.

But, at first, cautious NASA bureaucrats didn’t want to stop the construction on their own authority. And then Congress — at the urging of a senator from Mississippi — swooped in and ordered the agency to finish the tower, no matter what.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2014/12/15/nasas-349-million-monument-to-its-drift/?utm_term=.5fcb6181fc93

The question was why they did not go back to the Moon.  So that has to be explained by things that happened before 2000, not something that you say wasted money in 2010.

Story by David Fahrenthold
Published on December 15, 2014 - Washington Post

... Now, NASA has become a symbol of something else: what happens to a big bureaucracy after its sense of mission starts to fade.

In the past few years, presidents have repeatedly scrubbed and rewritten NASA’s goals. The moon was in. The moon was out. Mars was in. Now, Mars looks like a stretch. Today, the first goal is to visit an asteroid.

Jerked from one mission to another, NASA lost its sense that any mission was truly urgent. It began to absorb the vices of less-glamorous bureaucracies: Officials tended to let projects run over time and budget. Its congressional overseers tended to view NASA first as a means to deliver pork back home, and second as a means to deliver Americans into space.

In Mississippi, NASA built a monument to its own institutional drift.

The useless tower was repeatedly approved by people who, in essence, argued that the American space program had nothing better to do. ...

TromboneAndrew - 12 November 2017 10:35 AM

InBetween, I don’t know you and I don’t care what you think of me.

I may be wrong, but I get the impression that you don’t like to do actual research. You can start with your search engine of choice or - heaven forbid - a local library. Since you’re concerned about spending in NASA, here’s one place to start:

https://www.usaspending.gov/Pages/TextView.aspx?data=AgenciesMostFundedByFiscalYear

and here you can see how NASA is spending its money:

https://www.usaspending.gov/Pages/TextView.aspx?data=AgencyMostFundedRecipientsByAwardType&AwardType=C&agencycode=8000

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