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Sexual Harassment
Posted: 27 November 2017 01:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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CuthbertJ - 24 November 2017 10:08 AM

If a woman shows up to a corporate job without a bra, with a very short tight dress wearing stilletto heels, is that sexual harassment?

It could be, but what woman in a corporate job has done that? Details. Please.

Lois

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Posted: 27 November 2017 01:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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There already are statutes of limitations. It’s notoriously hard to bring a case against anyone after the limitation runs out. But should vivtims be prevented from saying something happened some time ago? Do they not have freedom of speech? It’s infortunate that they didn’t speak up at the time, but there are many good reasons for not saying anything from loss of jobs to public shaming.

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Posted: 27 November 2017 10:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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LoisL - 27 November 2017 01:20 PM

There already are statutes of limitations. It’s notoriously hard to bring a case against anyone after the limitation runs out. But should vivtims be prevented from saying something happened some time ago? Do they not have freedom of speech? It’s infortunate that they didn’t speak up at the time, but there are many good reasons for not saying anything from loss of jobs to public shaming.

Colbert covered how ridiculously hard it is to bring a complaint of sexual harassment for anyone working as Congressional staffers, it starts at about 4:00 minutes in the videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1XCBp5Qlec

Clearly the deck is stacked against women protecting themselves from predators.

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Posted: 28 November 2017 11:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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—-

[ Edited: 28 November 2017 11:05 PM by Citizenschallenge-v.3 ]
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Posted: 28 November 2017 11:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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Now trump is trying to pretend that the Billy Bush tape where he talked about sexually assaulting women was “faked”.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTbIpJs1inw

Even though he admitted at the time it was him on the tape and it’s something he wasn’t proud of.

And a number of women came forward to state that trump did in fact assault them in the manner that he described in the video.

It also includes a woman that claimed that trump raped her when she was 13.

https://www.snopes.com/2016/06/23/donald-trump-rape-lawsuit/

In late April 2016, rumors began to circulate online holding that Republican presidential Donald Trump had either been sued over, or arrested for, raping a teenaged girl. One of the earliest versions of the rumor was published on 2 May 2016 by the Winning Democrats web site, which reported that woman using the name Katie Johnson had named Trump and billionaire Jeffrey Epstein in a $100 million lawsuit, accusing them of having solicited sex acts from her at sex parties held at the Manhattan homes of Epstein and Trump back in 1994 (when Johnson was just 13 years old):

I think so many women and some men are stepping forward to reveal how abusive some very powerful people are because if they don’t now they never will be able to. Having a sexual predator in the Oval Office could have made this kind of behavior somehow socially acceptable.

If what Harvey Weinstein, Roy Moore, Kevin Spacey, the dude from Pixar, Al Franken and a bunch of others did was legally and morally wrong then so is what trump has done. If he gets a walk on his sexual assaults it sets an incredibly bad precedent. And that’s before we get to his involvement with Putin, what an absolute creep in the White House, he makes Nixon look lily white in comparison.

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Posted: 29 November 2017 11:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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LoisL - 27 November 2017 01:15 PM
CuthbertJ - 24 November 2017 10:08 AM

If a woman shows up to a corporate job without a bra, with a very short tight dress wearing stilletto heels, is that sexual harassment?

It could be, but what woman in a corporate job has done that? Details. Please.

Lois

Oh god you must work on the moon. Women, especially young women, dress like tramps all the time in corporate environments. And I know why - because they dress like that generally. Go to any university and I guarantee your head will spin when you see how young ladies dress these days. (not all of course, but way too many) I’m just thankful my kids are out of college. I used to hate walking around campus with my family because of how many female students dressed like prostitutes - made me extremely uncomfortable being with my daughters and wife, who themselves dressed normally.

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Posted: 29 November 2017 01:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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BUT regardless of everything folks have posted here, the Harasser in Chief still has his job. How is it that celebrity and celebrity is being fired for far lesser instances, and yet Drumpf still is president? Unbelievable.

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Posted: 29 November 2017 02:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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CuthbertJ - 29 November 2017 11:40 AM
LoisL - 27 November 2017 01:15 PM
CuthbertJ - 24 November 2017 10:08 AM

If a woman shows up to a corporate job without a bra, with a very short tight dress wearing stilletto heels, is that sexual harassment?

It could be, but what woman in a corporate job has done that? Details. Please.

Lois

Oh god you must work on the moon. Women, especially young women, dress like tramps all the time in corporate environments. And I know why - because they dress like that generally. Go to any university and I guarantee your head will spin when you see how young ladies dress these days. (not all of course, but way too many) I’m just thankful my kids are out of college. I used to hate walking around campus with my family because of how many female students dressed like prostitutes - made me extremely uncomfortable being with my daughters and wife, who themselves dressed normally.

I’m curious as to what constitutes trampy attire to you? I’m no expert in fashion but I’m a millennial and it seems odd that someone would say millennial women mostly dress like whores.

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Posted: 29 November 2017 04:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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CuthbertJ - 29 November 2017 01:12 PM

BUT regardless of everything folks have posted here, the Harasser in Chief still has his job. How is it that celebrity and celebrity is being fired for far lesser instances, and yet Drumpf still is president? Unbelievable.

Did you see the segment of The Apprentice where trump told the blond woman she would look good on her knees?

The creep doesn’t even try and hide what a predator he is… and is still treated like he represents mainstream America.

How many people who are now attacking Al Franken for instance were saying after the Billy Bush tape came out that it was just locker room boasting.

Even after multiple women stated that trump had assaulted them in exactly the way he described.

And a woman sued trump for raping her when she was 13.

We can see how completely dishonest trump is in now claiming that the Bush tape was faked even though he’s on tape from right after the release admitting it was him and it was wrong.

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Posted: 29 November 2017 07:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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DougC.V2 - 29 November 2017 04:35 PM
CuthbertJ - 29 November 2017 01:12 PM

BUT regardless of everything folks have posted here, the Harasser in Chief still has his job. How is it that celebrity and celebrity is being fired for far lesser instances, and yet Drumpf still is president? Unbelievable.

Did you see the segment of The Apprentice where trump told the blond woman she would look good on her knees?

The creep doesn’t even try and hide what a predator he is… and is still treated like he represents mainstream America.

How many people who are now attacking Al Franken for instance were saying after the Billy Bush tape came out that it was just locker room boasting.

Even after multiple women stated that trump had assaulted them in exactly the way he described.

And a woman sued trump for raping her when she was 13.

We can see how completely dishonest trump is in now claiming that the Bush tape was faked even though he’s on tape from right after the release admitting it was him and it was wrong.

Sad part is how many Americans seem to be taking it in stride.

It’s not about the offense - it’s about who can manipulate and spin it for their own purposes that matters in these here times, 
and we know who the ruthless ones are and who the patsies who roll over are.
:down:

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Posted: 30 November 2017 11:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Beltane - 29 November 2017 02:18 PM
CuthbertJ - 29 November 2017 11:40 AM
LoisL - 27 November 2017 01:15 PM
CuthbertJ - 24 November 2017 10:08 AM

If a woman shows up to a corporate job without a bra, with a very short tight dress wearing stilletto heels, is that sexual harassment?

It could be, but what woman in a corporate job has done that? Details. Please.

Lois

Oh god you must work on the moon. Women, especially young women, dress like tramps all the time in corporate environments. And I know why - because they dress like that generally. Go to any university and I guarantee your head will spin when you see how young ladies dress these days. (not all of course, but way too many) I’m just thankful my kids are out of college. I used to hate walking around campus with my family because of how many female students dressed like prostitutes - made me extremely uncomfortable being with my daughters and wife, who themselves dressed normally.

I’m curious as to what constitutes trampy attire to you? I’m no expert in fashion but I’m a millennial and it seems odd that someone would say millennial women mostly dress like whores.

Well for starters, when my wife tells me that look is what moms like her call “prostiteens”. Second, you must be on the low end of millenials, mentally. I said many not most. Third, it’s a very easy standard - google prostitute, see what images come up. Watch a few movies that have prostitutes in them (not porn, just any movie that has them, say Chinatown, etc.). You try to make it personal by implying I personally have some odd definition. Wrongo. I’m judging by standards in our culture.

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Posted: 30 November 2017 08:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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CuthbertJ - 30 November 2017 11:19 AM
Beltane - 29 November 2017 02:18 PM
CuthbertJ - 29 November 2017 11:40 AM
LoisL - 27 November 2017 01:15 PM
CuthbertJ - 24 November 2017 10:08 AM

If a woman shows up to a corporate job without a bra, with a very short tight dress wearing stilletto heels, is that sexual harassment?

It could be, but what woman in a corporate job has done that? Details. Please.

Lois

Oh god you must work on the moon. Women, especially young women, dress like tramps all the time in corporate environments. And I know why - because they dress like that generally. Go to any university and I guarantee your head will spin when you see how young ladies dress these days. (not all of course, but way too many) I’m just thankful my kids are out of college. I used to hate walking around campus with my family because of how many female students dressed like prostitutes - made me extremely uncomfortable being with my daughters and wife, who themselves dressed normally.

I’m curious as to what constitutes trampy attire to you? I’m no expert in fashion but I’m a millennial and it seems odd that someone would say millennial women mostly dress like whores.

Well for starters, when my wife tells me that look is what moms like her call “prostiteens”. Second, you must be on the low end of millenials, mentally. I said many not most. Third, it’s a very easy standard - google prostitute, see what images come up. Watch a few movies that have prostitutes in them (not porn, just any movie that has them, say Chinatown, etc.). You try to make it personal by implying I personally have some odd definition. Wrongo. I’m judging by standards in our culture.

Which culture?

There’s at least a dozen cultural standards concerning dress in America.

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Posted: 01 December 2017 11:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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Beltane - 30 November 2017 08:45 PM
CuthbertJ - 30 November 2017 11:19 AM
Beltane - 29 November 2017 02:18 PM
CuthbertJ - 29 November 2017 11:40 AM
LoisL - 27 November 2017 01:15 PM
CuthbertJ - 24 November 2017 10:08 AM

If a woman shows up to a corporate job without a bra, with a very short tight dress wearing stilletto heels, is that sexual harassment?

It could be, but what woman in a corporate job has done that? Details. Please.

Lois

Oh god you must work on the moon. Women, especially young women, dress like tramps all the time in corporate environments. And I know why - because they dress like that generally. Go to any university and I guarantee your head will spin when you see how young ladies dress these days. (not all of course, but way too many) I’m just thankful my kids are out of college. I used to hate walking around campus with my family because of how many female students dressed like prostitutes - made me extremely uncomfortable being with my daughters and wife, who themselves dressed normally.

I’m curious as to what constitutes trampy attire to you? I’m no expert in fashion but I’m a millennial and it seems odd that someone would say millennial women mostly dress like whores.

Well for starters, when my wife tells me that look is what moms like her call “prostiteens”. Second, you must be on the low end of millenials, mentally. I said many not most. Third, it’s a very easy standard - google prostitute, see what images come up. Watch a few movies that have prostitutes in them (not porn, just any movie that has them, say Chinatown, etc.). You try to make it personal by implying I personally have some odd definition. Wrongo. I’m judging by standards in our culture.

Which culture?

There’s at least a dozen cultural standards concerning dress in America.

Ok, list them AND describe how they are totally distinct from each other. Make your points specific to dress standards.

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Posted: 02 December 2017 01:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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CuthbertJ - 01 December 2017 11:30 AM
Beltane - 30 November 2017 08:45 PM
CuthbertJ - 30 November 2017 11:19 AM
Beltane - 29 November 2017 02:18 PM
CuthbertJ - 29 November 2017 11:40 AM
LoisL - 27 November 2017 01:15 PM
CuthbertJ - 24 November 2017 10:08 AM

If a woman shows up to a corporate job without a bra, with a very short tight dress wearing stilletto heels, is that sexual harassment?

It could be, but what woman in a corporate job has done that? Details. Please.

Lois

Oh god you must work on the moon. Women, especially young women, dress like tramps all the time in corporate environments. And I know why - because they dress like that generally. Go to any university and I guarantee your head will spin when you see how young ladies dress these days. (not all of course, but way too many) I’m just thankful my kids are out of college. I used to hate walking around campus with my family because of how many female students dressed like prostitutes - made me extremely uncomfortable being with my daughters and wife, who themselves dressed normally.

I’m curious as to what constitutes trampy attire to you? I’m no expert in fashion but I’m a millennial and it seems odd that someone would say millennial women mostly dress like whores.

Well for starters, when my wife tells me that look is what moms like her call “prostiteens”. Second, you must be on the low end of millenials, mentally. I said many not most. Third, it’s a very easy standard - google prostitute, see what images come up. Watch a few movies that have prostitutes in them (not porn, just any movie that has them, say Chinatown, etc.). You try to make it personal by implying I personally have some odd definition. Wrongo. I’m judging by standards in our culture.

Which culture?

There’s at least a dozen cultural standards concerning dress in America.

Ok, list them AND describe how they are totally distinct from each other. Make your points specific to dress standards.

Lets start with geography—
Northeast: Clothing is often cutting edge, dress to impress mentality is more common here than anywhere else in America. Conspicuous consumption is mandatory for middle class and higher. Women showing skin is acceptable in most venues as long as she is in shape. Jaded attitude towards nudity and sexuality.

South: Conservative social values place higher emphasis on conformity to appropriate appearance for venue (family, community will be embarrassed if you look bad). Standards are indirectly relaxed. Low tolerance for women showing off their bodies in public.

West Coast: Extremely casual standards - nearly any “look” is tolerated, bigger emphasis on quirkiness and being “natural”. Showing skin is no big deal because of the mild climate and liberal attitudes. Almost impossible to offend people regarding sexuality and nudity.

Midwest: Bigger emphasis on dressing sensibly. A plain and approachable look goes farthest. Showing skin in public is not welcome at all and seen as a character flaw. Harsh winters play a big role in the attitude towards the body. Standards are more extravagant in Chicago but still relatively tame compared to other big cities.

Race—
Black: Blacks care a lot about style and presentation and black women have .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) about their bodies. There’s an attitude of IF YOU GOT IT FLAUNT IT AND BE PROUD. Looking good and showing off is totally accepted. Outright nudity however, is generally frowned upon.

White: White American attitudes towards dress standards vary from extremely liberal to extremely conservative, but overall they’re less demonstrative than Black americans and their appearance is perhaps more aligned with class and career limitations.

Hispanic: Similar to the conservative White Attitude but with much more concern over how appearance affects their families. Some difference on which areas of the body are suitable for showing off.

Old vs Young: Should be obvious, the young are inherently more cutting edge in dress standards and comfortable showing skin because they are
a)In the prime of life
b)Looking for sex

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Posted: 02 December 2017 11:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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Beltane - 10 November 2017 11:07 PM

Almost anything can be sexual harassment. If something makes an individual feel the slightest bit uncomfortable, it can be interpreted as sexual harassment. Repetition doesn’t matter legally, if a woman rubs her breasts against a co-worker one time, that counts as sexual harassment. If a man forgets to zip up after pissing in the office restrooms he could be investigated for sexual harassment.

As far as crying wolf too often - I see the point but that chain of events is virtually impossible, the legal frame of it all makes it too costly to ignore.

The big problem with sexual harassment policy is innocuous things can end up ruining reputations, careers, relationships etc.

I understand there are two degrees: the lesser where (for example) a poor joke between friends is overheard, vs. the greater - deliberate action to make someone uncomfortable. The greater is directly sexual harassment; the lesser is also only if the behavior is addressed and doesn’t stop - at which point it becomes the greater anyway. The key here is that it is pretty important that people communicate with each other where their boundaries are, and that their social/professional environment facilitates this.

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