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On the HuffPo’s love of alt med (Merged)
Posted: 30 September 2009 06:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 46 ]
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skeptic65 - 30 September 2009 04:33 AM

Is it possible that people become dependent on antibiotics as they use it more often.

No, it is not possible.

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Posted: 30 September 2009 07:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 47 ]
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skeptic65 - 30 September 2009 04:33 AM

Wow! That is amazing. Folks, it is it not always black and white, this or that, zero or one. I didn’t say I don’t consult doctors, nor did I say I always use CAM as you call it. Let me address your questions one by one.

First, let’s start with simple things like small cuts or colds and coughs. There is no need for medicine most of the time. From my experience, if you keep cuts and wounds clean and apply Calendula ointment, they heal very fast, no need to do anything else. I have two kids of eleven and seven and they have never had any major infections due to cuts. You may call it luck, I call it due diligence and good parenting.

Second, antibiotics use. Both of my kids have never had to use antibiotics, though they have had colds, coughs and ear aches many times. Sure, I have consulted doctors whenever the fevers have lasted longer than a day or two. Doctors did prescribe antibiotics on more than one occasion and we always managed to heal our kids without them. Sure sometimes it takes longer and more care. As I happen to work from home, I could afford to do it. Even the toughest colds yield to oil of oregano. You may call it placebo effect, faith healing or whatever, the fact is it has worked for us and countless others. The best part is that, unlike antibiotics, it does not have strong side effects. I have seen many families who have frequent sicknesses, stubborn colds and allergies and often such families have major dependence on prescription medicine. Is it possible that many of these medicines actually cause people to fall sick more often? Is it possible that people become dependent on antibiotics as they use it more often. These questions need to be studied in more detail.

To answer some other questions, yes modern medicine has done wonders for infections, accidental injuries etc. But for chronic diseases it leaves much to be desired. You may call taking lifelong medicines, such as for diabetes an improvement, but I think there are better ways.

Skeptic

re: diabetes—-you mean painful prolonged death, such as the one in Wisconsin last year? ‘Skeptic’ that is what ALWAYS happened pre insulin.

re: coughs and colds, yes you CAN call it placebo effect. Cough and colds respond best to tincture of time. Homeopathy has NO effect, because there are NO active ingredients.

People aren’t ‘dependent’ on antibiotics, you have a poor to nonexistent understanding of biology and how medicine works.

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Church; where sheep congregate to worship a zombie on a stick that turns into a cracker on Sundays…

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Posted: 30 September 2009 07:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 48 ]
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Courtesy of Massimo Pigluicci:
lo*go*pho*bi*a
A skeptical doctrine about rationality….(where) rationality cannot be an objective constraint on us but is just whatever we make it, and what we make it depends on what we value.

per Pigluicci: ” :Logophobics have developed an arsenal of strategies to obfuscate clear thinking which they deploy whenever pressed by a skeptic.

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Church; where sheep congregate to worship a zombie on a stick that turns into a cracker on Sundays…

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Posted: 30 September 2009 07:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 49 ]
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fotobits - 30 September 2009 04:42 AM

Even the toughest colds yield to oil of oregano.

Got any empirical data to back that claim?

No sir, but it works for us very well.

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Posted: 30 September 2009 08:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 50 ]
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Jules - 30 September 2009 05:33 AM
skeptic65 - 30 September 2009 04:33 AM

... You may call taking lifelong medicines, such as for diabetes an improvement, but I think there are better ways…

So my father who died of diabetes last year, should have just given up on those insulin shots and amputations that kept him alive the last 15 years? Skipped the laser surgery when he started going blind? If he hadn’t taken those measures, he would have been dead 15 years ago. No amount of herb or oil would have changed that.

The parents in Oregon was it, who claimed to heal their diabetic daughter with prayer and herbal/natural medicine, it worked out really well for them. Her being dead and them being in jail…

I am sorry about your father, and I know many people who have died of diabetes. I am not saying that insulin is not necessary for some people. The point I would like to make here is that the medical establishment doesn’t put in enough effort in preventive measures. There are so many things that can be done to prevent it from happening in the first place.

Even after one is diagnosed, it is neither a death sentence, nor is one condemned to take insulin always. There are other ways to manage one’s sugar. Dietary changes, lifestyle changes, yoga can and do help.

Skeptic

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Posted: 30 September 2009 08:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 51 ]
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George - 30 September 2009 06:31 AM
skeptic65 - 30 September 2009 04:33 AM

Doctors did prescribe antibiotics on more than one occasion and we always managed to heal our kids without them. Sure sometimes it takes longer and more care.

Yes, it takes longer, which means there is a greater risk to infect people around you. This is one of the reasons doctors give you antibiotics. Next time please take them.

As an example of how dangerous that behavior is, I will use the example of ear infections. Before kids were given antibiotics for severe ear infections, many children became deaf. Not many people remember those days, but my mother does and often talked about childhood friends who lost their hearing due to ear infections. Untreated ear infections can also lead to meningitis, other brain infection, and death. If a doctor feels the infection is serious enough to warrant antibiotics (they can tell by looking in the ear and by the child’s fever) it is cruel to the child and dangerous to not provide the prescribed antibiotics. Ear infections also hurt like hell, and also require pain management. I don’t know of any herbs that will take away throbbing ear infection pain.

Mild ear infection or ear irritation can often be relieved with decongestants and pain relievers, but the doctor should monitor to see if it escalates.

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Posted: 30 September 2009 08:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 52 ]
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The one problem with the ear infection is that in most cases—I believe it was somewhere around 80%—it is actually caused by a virus. Since doctors have no way of knowing if it is a bacterial or a viral infection, they usually prescribe antibiotics. I guess it is still safer to take antibiotics even though the infection is most likely viral than to run the risk of becoming deaf.

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Posted: 30 September 2009 08:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 53 ]
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asanta - 30 September 2009 07:24 AM

re: diabetes—-you mean painful prolonged death, such as the one in Wisconsin last year? ‘Skeptic’ that is what ALWAYS happened pre insulin.

re: coughs and colds, yes you CAN call it placebo effect. Cough and colds respond best to tincture of time. Homeopathy has NO effect, because there are NO active ingredients.

People aren’t ‘dependent’ on antibiotics, you have a poor to nonexistent understanding of biology and how medicine works.

I admit that I have a poor understanding of biology. But what amazes me about the practitioners is the amount of arrogance they display in their own capability and knowledge. The fact of the matter is that biology is not an exact science, not yet anyway. Nobody yet understands even the most basic things about biology. For example, what is the function of the nucleus of a cell? How does the immune system work. How does the nervous system work. A whole lot of what passes of as knowledge in the medical field is guess work at best, especially when it comes to functionality of various organs, disease mechanisms and the immune response. All of modern medicine’s methodology depends upon this incomplete knowledge. So when someone says, the medicines are proven to work in a certain group of people under certain circumstances, it is not the same thing as saying 2+2 = 4. Most of the modern medicines at the most have 10 years of clinical study behind them. Many of the herbal remedies used, in say Ayurveda, have thousands of years of history and our ancestors did an amazing amount of study. It is true they didn’t use the modern methods, but to dismiss all that work as faith healing or quackery is sophistry.

I agree that doctors and nurses work hard to get where they are and a lot of them are genuinely concerned about their patients’ welfare. I don’t grudge the doctors at all. But when someone says doctors know what’s best for you, I really smirk to myself. That’s not true at all. They know a lot about biology and medicines, but that doesn’t mean they always know what’s best for me. I know my body, my lifestyle, my diet better than anyone else. I know my health history better than anyone else. I know which medicines work for me which don’t. So it is my responsibility to do my own homework before accepting a diagnosis, prognosis and prescription.

Skeptic

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Posted: 30 September 2009 08:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 54 ]
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Jules - 30 September 2009 08:10 AM
George - 30 September 2009 06:31 AM
skeptic65 - 30 September 2009 04:33 AM

Doctors did prescribe antibiotics on more than one occasion and we always managed to heal our kids without them. Sure sometimes it takes longer and more care.

Yes, it takes longer, which means there is a greater risk to infect people around you. This is one of the reasons doctors give you antibiotics. Next time please take them.

As an example of how dangerous that behavior is, I will use the example of ear infections. Before kids were given antibiotics for severe ear infections, many children became deaf. Not many people remember those days, but my mother does and often talked about childhood friends who lost their hearing due to ear infections. Untreated ear infections can also lead to meningitis, other brain infection, and death. If a doctor feels the infection is serious enough to warrant antibiotics (they can tell by looking in the ear and by the child’s fever) it is cruel to the child and dangerous to not provide the prescribed antibiotics. Ear infections also hurt like hell, and also require pain management. I don’t know of any herbs that will take away throbbing ear infection pain.

Mild ear infection or ear irritation can often be relieved with decongestants and pain relievers, but the doctor should monitor to see if it escalates.

Yes, but you are not providing complete information. Infections are dangerous only if they don’t go away even after 5-7 days. Most ear infections go away within 2-3 days. Doctors often do not wait that long. They want to provide immediate relief even if the infection is viral. Parents are the same, they don’t have the patience to wait that long.

Herbal remedies such as oil of oregano or garlic work very well for ear infections, in my personal experience.

Skeptic

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Posted: 30 September 2009 08:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 55 ]
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skeptic65 - 30 September 2009 08:04 AM

...Even after one is diagnosed, it is neither a death sentence, nor is one condemned to take insulin always. There are other ways to manage one’s sugar. Dietary changes, lifestyle changes, yoga can and do help.

Dietary changes were made and followed. Expert dieticians and nutritionists were consulted. Physical therapy was adhered to. Experts at Yale were consulted. If your pancreas is damaged, no amount of diet, exercise, or yoga is going to fix it.

I’m sure my widowed mother who quit her job to care for him and measured exact portions of low-sugar, whole grain, and low fat protein, following expert dieticians for 15 years would be thrilled to know that she wasn’t doing it right.

I’m sure his physcial therapist who he worked with 3-5 times a week would be thrilled to know that his prescribed exercise was wrong, and yoga would have cured him.

I’m sure his doctors would be thrilled to know that they had it all wrong!

Not a death sentence, you say? Tell that to my mother, who still cries every night, a year later, missing the man she had loved for 45 years.

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Posted: 30 September 2009 08:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 56 ]
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skeptic65 - 30 September 2009 08:37 AM

Herbal remedies such as oil of oregano or garlic work very well for ear infections, in my personal experience.

Because you have been lucky so far. As I said earlier, most infections are viral and will resolve themselves with or without garlic. I hope you won’t have to find out one day that you were wrong.

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Posted: 30 September 2009 08:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 57 ]
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Jules - 30 September 2009 08:50 AM
skeptic65 - 30 September 2009 08:04 AM

Not a death sentence, you say? Tell that to my mother, who still cries every night, a year later, missing the man she had loved for 45 years.

I was not specifically talking about your father’s case. There are always cases that are beyond help, and again, my sympathies are with your family.

Skeptic

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Posted: 30 September 2009 08:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 58 ]
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George - 30 September 2009 08:53 AM
skeptic65 - 30 September 2009 08:37 AM

Herbal remedies such as oil of oregano or garlic work very well for ear infections, in my personal experience.

Because you have been lucky so far. As I said earlier, most infections are viral and will resolve themselves with or without garlic. I hope you won’t have to find out one day that you were wrong.

And I certainly hope that you don’t find one day that antibiotics have damaged your patients health more than helped them.

Skeptic

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Posted: 30 September 2009 08:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 59 ]
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skeptic65 - 30 September 2009 08:37 AM

Parents are the same, they don’t have the patience to wait that long.

No, not all parents are the same. Some are evidently very ignorant.

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Posted: 30 September 2009 08:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 60 ]
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George - 30 September 2009 08:56 AM
skeptic65 - 30 September 2009 08:37 AM

Parents are the same, they don’t have the patience to wait that long.

No, not all parents are the same. Some are evidently very ignorant.

Personal attacks are fine, but modern medicine doesn’t always help the people in the best of health. The more you stay away from it the better off you are.

Skeptic

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